Why don't Jews accept Jesus as the Messiah & Son of God?

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

No, not at all. Don't just quote the part of what I said that you can twist.  You are misrepresenting me.   Judaism is not Pharisaism.   While the Pharisees survived 70 AD, Pharisaism did not.   That is the mistake you are making.

Modern Orthodox Judaism is Kabbalistic.  It is full of mysticism and occultic practices.  Judaism is made up of many different groups that do not follow Orthodoxy.  Conservative, Reformed, Reconstructionist, are other groups of Judaism that bear no resemblance to Pharisaism.   Hasidism and traditional Orthodox are NOTHING like the ancient Pharisees.

And Modern Judaism rejects Jesus based on the church's rejection of them.   The church has made it clear that Jews are the killers of Christ, and has been at the forefront of Jewish persecution and anti-Semitism.   To try and claim that modern Jews reject Jesus for the same reasons that they did in the first century and completely disregard nearly two millennia of persecution of Jews by the church only demonstrates that you don't squat about Judaism. 

No I am not misquoting you. We merely have differing views of what Pharisaism is. It is not listening to Moses PERIOD. that is why there are all these differing sects. Everyone having their own oral law.

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, Joline said:

No I am not misquoting you. We merely ave differing views of what Pharisaism is. It is not listening to Moses PERIOD.

I am not going to debate with your ignorance any more.   You don't know anything about what you are talking about. 

[Guest]

Just now, shiloh357 said:

I am not going to debate with your ignorance any more.   You don't know anything about what you are talking about. 

OK. You know it all Shiloh..........................

[LeavesSeeds]

Esther,  there is no reason anywhere that justifies rejecting God the Creator and Jesus Messiah His Son.

The reason as several posters have noted,  that some Jews rejected 'christiandom' is because 'christiandom' rejected Jesus and rejected Scripture.

The Jews who knew Scripture, INCLUDING about MESSIAH,  saw this more clearly than we do.

That STILL IS NO EXCUSE FOR THEM ON JUDGMENT DAY.  There is no excuse on JUDGMENT DAY for REJECTING JESUS.

5 minutes ago, Esther4:14 said:

What you are saying suggests that they have more reason to reject Christianity because of their lack of familiarity of the Torah.  If their only representation of this new religion is stealing them from their country and letting them die as they take them to a different country where they will force them to work for nothing, separating them from their spouses and children, and beating them and abusing them for objecting to this treatment.  

I am not seeing this as the gentle banner of the Gospel message...

So, you also seem to be saying that when the Jews use the Torah to rightly oppose the belief that accepting Christ constitutes idolatry because the law says, " Fear the LORD your God, serve him only and take your oaths in his name," (Deuteronomy 6:13); 

Again, the problem we are dealing with is more doctrinal than anything else and it might be better to recognize this and bring the Jewish people the message of the resurrection of Christ rather than expecting them to adopt what we know as the Trinity doctrine, which is opposed to most of the Old Testament outside of "let us make man in our image, " (Genesis 1:26).  

The Old Testament never gives an indication that the Messianic prophecy includes what we are familiar with as Trinity doctrine.  In fact, the Old Testament is very clear that there is one God, only one!  Therefore, it becomes a doctrinal subject of opposition with Judaism that would be easier to resolve with preaching the resurrection rather than expecting the Jewish people to adopt the whole quadrinity of the essence at the center of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.  

The Pharisees accepted the resurrection, they just didn't want to accept that His resurrection meant that He was fulfilling the prophecies spoken about Him through the prophets, and that this meant He was given greater authority than they had, and it is the resurrection that demonstrates who He is to begin with.   

 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, LeavesSeeds said:

Why ?   You haven't shown any of your CLAIMS    (earlier, all clearly denoted). to be true yet.

Neither have you. You show me in the law, where Jews being exiled and suffering is not a result of their own sin of not keeping the law. You go ahead and do that huh?

[LeavesSeeds]

Why again ? I never claimed that the Jews being exiled and suffering was not a result of their own sin of not keeping the law.

That's another CLAIM YOU MADE on your own, so far all of your CLAIMS with no substance. 

1 minute ago, Joline said:

Neither have you. You show me in the law, where Jews being exiled and suffering is not a result of their own sin of not keeping the law. You go ahead and do that huh?

 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, LeavesSeeds said:

Why again ? I never claimed that the Jews being exiled and suffering was not a result of their own sin of not keeping the law.

That's another CLAIM YOU MADE on your own, so far all of your CLAIMS with no substance. 

 

Really? you have not been saying that?

why all the stuff about the Church then huh?

Do you think their Rabbis are to unintelligent to know what the gospels say here? the Gospel to the Jew's still begin with Johns baptism of repentance.

Even black slaves knew what the gospels said, despite their owners "BEING CHRISTIANS"

[Esther4:14]

2 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

Like it or not, 1,700 years of being hated by the church is not an "excuse."   It means that the church has been the biggest obstacle to the Jewish people coming to faith.

Most Christians are really not familiar with Church history enough to realize just how much the Church has re-enforced Jewish unbelief.  They have done the opposite of Paul said in Romans 11.

 

Or, maybe they have been right in their rebuke a time or two, and it was by doing this that these same people protected the message of the Gospel from adopting the teachings of the Talmud and other doctrines like Satan did not really rebel against the authority of God.  I am not saying that this is not unfortunate or that this is how I prefer it to be.  It's clearly not what I would prefer to see.  

Since early in my salvation, I have worked in a hospital.  We have patients come and go who bring sickness upon themselves at times.  I understand that this makes it difficult for all of us who work there to not complain about the one who is suffering liver failure because they drink too much.  We have even complained about many unruly patient with dementia who don't even have the ability to know what they are really doing anymore.  It just becomes a habit that I have seen from time to time.  This is the way we cope with difficult people.  We complain about them, and I decided early on when I would see this that if I wanted to say that I was a Christian, the only thing I needed to do was find a way to love this difficult person and not join in with the rest when they complain about him.  

This is part of the foundation of who I want to be as a Christian, so it is not something I prefer to say.  It is more of an unfortunate truth to consider.  What would the world be like today if the church had allowed the teachers in Judaism to have greater influence then they have had?  

[LeavesSeeds]

Quote me.   You have never justified or verified your CLAIMS (noted ) yet.  

2 minutes ago, Joline said:

Really? you have not been saying that?....

 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Esther4:14 said:

Or, maybe they have been right in their rebuke a time or two, and it was by doing this that these same people protected the message of the Gospel from adopting the teachings of the Talmud and other doctrines like Satan did not really rebel against the authority of God.  I am not saying that this is not unfortunate or that this is how I prefer it to be.  It's clearly not what I would prefer to see.  

Since early in my salvation, I have worked in a hospital.  We have patients come and go who bring sickness upon themselves at times.  I understand that this makes it difficult for all of us who work there to not complain about the one who is suffering liver failure because they drink too much.  We have even complained about many unruly patient with dementia who don't even have the ability to know what they are really doing anymore.  It just becomes a habit that I have seen from time to time.  This is the way we cope with difficult people.  We complain about them, and I decided early on when I would see this that if I wanted to say that I was a Christian, the only thing I needed to do was find a way to love this difficult person and not join in with the rest when they complain about him.  

This is part of the foundation of who I want to be as a Christian, so it is not something I prefer to say.  It is more of an unfortunate truth to consider.  What would the world be like today if the church had allowed the teachers in Judaism to have greater influence then they have had?  

Amen Esther.

The Catholic Church has had dialogue with the Rabbis and repented of this sin. There is no more excuse for this stuff, especially since it is coming from believers.