If you don't work you shouldn't eat? 2 Thess. 3:10

[GoldenEagle]

I've heard this passage over and over again. I've even read it and quoted it myself without even thinking to really look at the passage in context. I used this passage basically saying that people who don't work shouldn't eat. Yet is that really what this passage is saying? How do you view this passage in 2 Thessalonians? Here's the verse in context: 

2 Thess. 3:6-115

6 Now we command you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is walking in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us. 7 For you yourselves know how you ought to imitate us, because we were not idle when we were with you, 8 nor did we eat anyone's bread without paying for it, but with toil and labor we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you. 9 It was not because we do not have that right, but to give you in ourselves an example to imitate. 10 For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat. 11 For we hear that some among you walk in idleness, not busy at work, but busybodies. 12 Now such persons we command and encourage in the Lord Jesus Christ to do their work quietly and to earn their own living.

13 As for you, brothers, do not grow weary in doing good. 14 If anyone does not obey what we say in this letter, take note of that person, and have nothing to do with him, that he may be ashamed. 15 Do not regard him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother.

Interested in learning and growing together.

God bless,
GE

Note: Keep in mind the 5 W's when reading Scripture:

1. Who wrote it?
2. What genre is it?
3. When was it written?
4. Who was it written to?
5. Why was it written?

[missmuffet]

The New Testament contains another important principle regarding work: “If a man will not work, he shall not eat” (2 Thessalonians 3:10); that is, the refusal of an able-bodied man to work should have the consequence that he lacks food. Paul also says that an “idle” man who refuses to work should not be part of the church (verse 6). Paul and his companions set a good example of hard work: “We were not idle when we were with you, nor did we eat anyone’s food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you” (verses 7-8).

Christians should work hard. Work is integral to life, and approaching work as God-given will give us more pleasure in it. We can work cheerfully and without complaint because we are working for the Lord who loves us and has redeemed us. A good work ethic can also be a witness to others (Matthew 5:16). The world takes notice of our efforts and wonders why we do what we do.

It is important to note that the Bible does not condone workaholism. We do not work merely to amass worldly wealth (in fact, Matthew 6:19-34 warns about this). We work to bring glory to God. We also do not work ourselves into the ground or to the extent that our health is damaged or our families suffer.

God is more interested in relationship with us than He is in what we do. God instituted the Sabbath at the beginning of creation. He did the work of creation for six days and then ceased. God is omnipotent; He did not need rest; He was setting an example for us. In the Ten Commandments, God confirmed both the importance of work and rest. “Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work” (Exodus 20:9-10a). Later, we see that God even required a Sabbath for the fields (see Leviticus 27). Though the specific laws regarding the Sabbath no longer apply to believers, we are told that “the Sabbath was made for man” (Mark 2:27). It is a gift that we are wise to accept. So, while Christians are called to have a strong work ethic and to work hard at all that they do, they are also called to take times of rest.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-work-ethic.html

[Omegaman 3.0]

Seems to me it is just saying that if a person to too lazy to work, then don't encourage his lazyness with handouts, reserve your charity for the needy, not the greedy, but that is just my interpretation.

I would also take notice, that the context is about brothers, those in the church. Paul also seems to prescribe a degree of shunning.

[missmuffet]

Of course that goes for able bodied people who are able to work. There are many who are working the system and are not honest. They really are able to work. Then you have those who are really sick and genuinely are not able to work. That is what SSI and Social Security is for.

[Ezra]

2 hours ago, GoldenEagle said:

Yet is that really what this passage is saying? 

That's exactly what it is saying.  In the Bible. slothfulness and idleness are sins, the reason being that (1) God Himself worked during the six days of Creation, (2) Christ Himself worked the finished work of Redemption, (3) the Holy Spirit works in every believer both to will and to do of God's good pleasure.  Thus work is a fundamental Divine and spiritual activity, even though it may be physical or mental.

After the Fall of Man, mankind was given the mandate to work with great effort ("in the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread") for six days out of seven. The elders of the churches were commended when they labored in the Word and doctrine. Christians are commanded to be workmen when studying the Word of God, and the dissemination of the Gospel is hard work under hazardous conditions.  Preaching and teaching are also very hard works.

There is no such thing as *retirement* in Scripture, since the example of Christ was that He was working hard every day until His ascension. He said that the Father had given Him a work to do, and therefore every Christian has been given a work to do.  Indeed good works have been assigned to Christians, which were foreordained by God (Eph 2:10). Please note that we are His workmanship, so just as God works, we work.

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

[Guest Robert]

As everyone else here as said: if they won't work, they should not eat. Scripture isn't talking about can't;  in fact, the Bible often tells us about showing mercy and generosity to those in genuine need. This passage was to prevent someone from "getting by" on the generosity of others, and taking advantage of their good-hearted desire to help.

[GoldenEagle]

10 hours ago, GoldenEagle said:

I've heard this passage over and over again. I've even read it and quoted it myself without even thinking to really look at the passage in context. I used this passage basically saying that people who don't work shouldn't eat. Yet is that really what this passage is saying? How do you view this passage in 2 Thessalonians?  

Note: Keep in mind the 5 W's when reading Scripture:

1. Who wrote it?
2. What genre is it?
3. When was it written?
4. Who was it written to?
5. Why was it written?

First to understand the book let's look at the 5's shall we bopeep1909, RobertS, Omegaman 3.0, Ezra?

1. Who wrote it? 

The Apostle Paul wrote it. Probably with Silas and Timothy.

2. What genre is it? 

This is one of Paul's epistle letters to local churches.

3. When was it written? 

Paul wrote it around AD 51-52.

4. Who was it written to?

This letter was written to the local church of Thessalonica. It was written to the local Believers in Jesus Christ. 

5. Why was it written?

The church in Thessalonica still had some misconceptions about the Day of the Lord. They thought it had come already so they stopped with their work. They were being persecuted badly. Paul wrote to clear up misconceptions and to comfort them.

Can we agree on this?

God bless,
GE

[GoldenEagle]

Assuming for a moment we agree on the above previous post... bopeep1909, RobertS, Omegaman 3.0, Ezra

Some would argue regarding Thess. 3:10 that it was a specific recommendation to Christians made in a specific place by Paul, some of whom were apparently running around sticking their noses in other people's business all day long, causing arguments and other problems between members of the congregation, instead of just minding their own. In other words being busybodies. It's a practical solution offered by Paul to resolve a problem in a Christian community when its charitable mission is being taken advantage of by a few special folks; keep the gossiping busybodies working so they can't plant rumors and fuel discord I guess right? 

These people causing the problem weren't poor children or scam artists in a booming economy, they had work available. Perhaps they were skilled laborers. Perhaps they had land to plant crops or animals tend to. Based on the time and place Paul spoke, they presumably just blew some of it off because they liked playing games. They would be the equivalent today of modern internet trolls or busybodies. You know these people they're still the gossips and busybodies in your local church today. They liked to go around creating strife. 

What's important to understand here is working was secondary in this context. This is not so much a moral decree about work, the main message is a warning not to take advantage of the Christian obligation to feed the hungry. Particularly if you are messing up the church and community tasked with doing good works by behaving like a ten year-old socialite.

A more modern version might read like this: "Yes, normally the local Church and your brothers in Christ have a responsibility to feed you if you are hungry. But if you keep this divisive stuff up you're going to go hungry this time around as a punishment. Why? Because I, Paul, hereby relieve the local church and the entire community of its standard Christian obligation to help you out if you come up short. That is at least until you quiet down and get back to your own business."

But there is no doubt what the core principles of Jesus were as he stated them very clearly over, and over, and over again: love God, love people, feed the hungry, help the poor, help the widow, help the orphan, and {even} give your money away. Generosity is such a beautiful topic found throughout Scripture. 

I think too often people use this passage out of context to say they don't have to help others. When in reality this passage clearly is meant to indicate what to do with Believers who are not being responsible. It was also written to a specific community at a specific time. That's my 2 cents anyway. 

What do you think? Can you see it from that perspective?

[GoldenEagle]

7 hours ago, RobertS said:

As everyone else here as said: if they won't work, they should not eat. Scripture isn't talking about can't;  in fact, the Bible often tells us about showing mercy and generosity to those in genuine need. This passage was to prevent someone from "getting by" on the generosity of others, and taking advantage of their good-hearted desire to help.

I pretty much agree with you RobertS. Did you have some sample passages for us to look at here in red? 

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

7 hours ago, Ezra said:

That's exactly what it is saying.  In the Bible. slothfulness and idleness are sins, the reason being that (1) God Himself worked during the six days of Creation, (2) Christ Himself worked the finished work of Redemption, (3) the Holy Spirit works in every believer both to will and to do of God's good pleasure.  Thus work is a fundamental Divine and spiritual activity, even though it may be physical or mental.

After the Fall of Man, mankind was given the mandate to work with great effort ("in the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread") for six days out of seven. The elders of the churches were commended when they labored in the Word and doctrine. Christians are commanded to be workmen when studying the Word of God, and the dissemination of the Gospel is hard work under hazardous conditions.  Preaching and teaching are also very hard works.

There is no such thing as *retirement* in Scripture, since the example of Christ was that He was working hard every day until His ascension. He said that the Father had given Him a work to do, and therefore every Christian has been given a work to do.  Indeed good works have been assigned to Christians, which were foreordained by God (Eph 2:10). Please note that we are His workmanship, so just as God works, we work.

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Ezra perhaps... But maybe it's a specific passage to a specific station to a specific church? See my previous post starting with "Assuming for a moment..."

God bless,
GE