If you don't work you shouldn't eat? 2 Thess. 3:10

[Guest Robert]

21 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

I think that is where good old fashioned commonsense comes into play.  I don't think the Lord expects us to squander resources on those who allow themselves to become dependent on handouts.   And we do them no favors by letting them do that to us.

I have no problem helping and giving to someone who is demonstrating that he is trying to help himself.  If he is out looking for a job and really putting out a good effort to get it together and stuff, I will help him until he is back up and ready to go.   But if there are always excuses as to why he can't get out and look for a job or a place to live, and I can tell he is just mooching off of me, I am less willing to help at that point.

Exactly. And this is why I don't ask for help when I'm in need. I want to be able to do for myself, not to mention someone else could use that help a lot more.

[Guest shiloh357]

7 minutes ago, RobertS said:

Exactly. And this is why I don't ask for help when I'm in need. I want to be able to do for myself, not to mention someone else could use that help a lot more.

Same here.   I am a forward thinker, and so I prepare for possible problems so that I can help myself and not depend on others. 

[tigger398]

The problem is the people who need it can't get it. There is no money. I seen it first hand.

[Guest Robert]

14 minutes ago, tigger398 said:

The problem is the people who need it can't get it. There is no money. I seen it first hand.

As have I, tigger. I've been there, and still struggle. I prefer to do for myself and take care of my own emergencies, but I've seen where help isn't there and folks who need it can't get it.

[firestormx]

9 hours ago, GoldenEagle said:

How do we balance between making sure people are not taking advantage and the commands in scripture to give and not hold back? This is what I'm wrestling through and trying to come to terms with. 

Here are some of the passages I'm talking about and wrestling through. Feel free to look them up in context.   

The the Old Testament for example: 

Deuteronomy 15:10
Give generously to him and do so without a grudging heart; then because of this the Lord your God will bless you in all your work and in everything you put your hand to.

Deuteronomy 16:17
Every man shall give as he is able, according to the blessing of the LORD your God which He has given you.

Proverbs 3:27 
Do not withhold good from those to whom it is due, when it is in your power to do it. 

Proverbs 11:24-25
There is one who scatters, and yet increases all the more, and there is one who withholds what is justly due, and yet it results only in want. The generous man will be prosperous, and he who waters will himself be watered. 

Proverbs 21:26
…the righteous gives and does not hold back.

Proverbs 22:9
He who is generous will be blessed, for he gives some of his food to the poor.

Proverbs 28:27 
He who gives to the poor will never want, but he who shuts his eyes will have many curses.

 

Or how about the New Testament? 

Luke 6:30
Give to everyone who asks of you, and whoever takes away what is yours, do not demand it back. 

Luke 6:38
Give, and it will be given to you. They will pour into your lap a good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over. For by your standard of measure it will be measured to you in return.

Matthew 6:3-4
But when you give to the poor, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving will be in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.

2 Corinthians 9:6-8
Now this I say, he who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that always having all sufficiency in everything, you may have an abundance for every good deed.

James 2:15-16
If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and be filled,” and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?

God bless,

GE

All these verses is kinda what I was trying to get at in my response to Ezra. It's like,  I have heard people trying to defend homosexuality and they say Don't Judge me, the bible says don't Judge. While it is technically true the bible and Jesus does say Don't judge in Matthew. It is taking the verse out of context and ignoring the rest of what the bible says on judging. I think the same thing happens on this subject. People take one line, in one verse and ignore the rest of scripture on giving and showing love. When the default position of any situation is , I am not feeding them, let them starve instead of being a default position of love mercy and compassion, then something is very wrong.

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Brother(Hiya-lol)

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I might agree if people are being divisive in the church, not working, and then wanting assistance. Yet how then do we apply the teachings on giving in the Bible? How do we balance between making sure people are not taking advantage and the commands in scripture to give and not hold back? This is what I'm wrestling through and trying to come to terms with.                                         posted by Goden Eagle

We don't ,the Holy Spirit does & we need only to be obedient,not get in the way,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I'll explain,it is not for us to determine on our own who is pulling the wool over our eyes & who is deserving of what we will give,,,,,it is not "ours" in the first place,we are merely stewards of what God & God Alone Provides,,,

Shiloh mentioned that we must use our common sense & that is helpful but we have much more than just "common sense" we have the Heart & Mind of Christ,,,,,,,,,,,,We must first understand that everything we have been Provided with is from God,we may have earned it but it is He Who has given us the Power by which to attain wealth,,,,,,in fact,even 'we" ourselves are His,we have been purchased,bought by His Blood

If you sat down with pen & paper & added up what I have & what I should give,according to facts,,,,you would say"she cannot give,it is impossible',,,,,,,But with Gods Truth & by His Provision I am Blessed Abundantly & always have something to give,,,,,,,and I simply "give" to who I am lead to give to,,,,,,,does it matter "why" they have their hand out? No,not really,,,,,,,what that recipient sees is an act of kindness,love,charity,,what they hear is that they must thank the Lord because it is from Him & their hearts are convicted no matter what their motive is,,,,,      Does it matter that the homeless alcoholic(with his car parked behind the bushes) intends to do with the 2 dollars in the Bible I just gave him? No,it was an opportunity to show him,I love you,Jesus loves you just the way you are

  I think too many people let their pride ,knowledge or their thought process get in the way,just give,it is easy,,,,,,God is looking at your heart & Blesses you a hundred fold,,,,,,He is Provider        I've been duped & I knew very well that it was not what the person said it was but the Holy Spirit prompted me to give anyway & so I did,I just Trust God,,,,,& there were other times I was prompted not to,again,,,,trusting God,,,,,,,,

   THe "takers" will always get something from me,perhaps it won't be money but they will get something because they asked,,,,the one's that don't work & want to eat,,,,,well,I do not believe they should get public(gov't assistance)hand outs but I will feed them if they are hungry,,,,,,,I don't ask why,the gov't should do that but not me,I do what I am lead to do,,,,,it is not my decision ,,,,,it is not "mine" to decide      To God be the Glory

                                                                                     With love-in Christ,Kwik

[GoldenEagle]

10 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

I think that is where good old fashioned commonsense comes into play.  I don't think the Lord expects us to squander resources on those who allow themselves to become dependent on handouts.   And we do them no favors by letting them do that to us.

I have no problem helping and giving to someone who is demonstrating that he is trying to help himself.  If he is out looking for a job and really putting out a good effort to get it together and stuff, I will help him until he is back up and ready to go.   But if there are always excuses as to why he can't get out and look for a job or a place to live, and I can tell he is just mooching off of me, I am less willing to help at that point.

What about those who don't know how to help themselves? Or those who are looking for a job but not finding anything? Or those who are significantly underemployed? 

10 hours ago, Ezra said:

The principle of work applies to all humanity across the board. Instructions to Christians only would be for Christians only (regarding brothers in the Lord).

And so 2 Thess 3:10 only applies to Christians in context. 

9 hours ago, RobertS said:

Exactly. And this is why I don't ask for help when I'm in need. I want to be able to do for myself, not to mention someone else could use that help a lot more.

Sometimes being humble means admitting that you can't make it on your own though right? 

9 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

Same here.   I am a forward thinker, and so I prepare for possible problems so that I can help myself and not depend on others. 

Perhaps this is a good thing. Forward thinking is a good trait. Yet not everyone has that luxury. Particularly when they have kids or take care of elder parents.

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

The problem is the people who need it can't get it. There is no money. I seen it first hand.

What specifically do you mean Tigger? Can you give an example? 

8 hours ago, RobertS said:

As have I, tigger. I've been there, and still struggle. I prefer to do for myself and take care of my own emergencies, but I've seen where help isn't there and folks who need it can't get it.

I think most people would rather depend on themselves. It is sad when those who are in need are turned away or cannot find help.

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

6 hours ago, firestormx said:

All these verses is kinda what I was trying to get at in my response to Ezra. It's like,  I have heard people trying to defend homosexuality and they say Don't Judge me, the bible says don't Judge. While it is technically true the bible and Jesus does say Don't judge in Matthew. It is taking the verse out of context and ignoring the rest of what the bible says on judging. I think the same thing happens on this subject. People take one line, in one verse and ignore the rest of scripture on giving and showing love. When the default position of any situation is , I am not feeding them, let them starve instead of being a default position of love mercy and compassion, then something is very wrong.

Exactly.  I think sometimes people, myself included, forget that we're just managers of what God has entrusted to us. We look at our finances and possessions as owners instead. Having an open fist is the only way to really receive more blessings. Having a closed fist holding onto stuff doesn't allow God to move as easily in our lives. 

Interested to see what Ezra has to say. 

God bless,

GE

[Guest shiloh357]

1 minute ago, GoldenEagle said:

What about those who don't know how to help themselves? Or those who are looking for a job but not finding anything? Or those who are significantly underemployed? 

 

Well, when I say, "help"  I mean helping someone finding a job or leading them to someone who can do more than I can for them.  It all depends on the attitude of the person, not their ability.   If they are doing what they can do, that's fine.  There tons of options and programs out there to help those who are willing to also put their best foot forward.  I can't pay their rent or anything, but I can help them out with some grocery money and take them to job interviews and stuff.  I have done that before.
 

Quote

 

Perhaps this is a good thing. Forward thinking is a good trait. Yet not everyone has that luxury. Particularly when they have kids or take care of elder parents.

God bless,

 

How would any of that be an obstacle to forward thinking?  I am talking about planning for emergencies and stuff. I would think that having kids to care for would only be more motivation for planning and preparation for emergencies and unexpected stuff.