hmbld Posted July 9, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 2,491 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 1,457 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/23/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/02/1971 Share Posted July 9, 2016 21 minutes ago, kwikphilly said: I cannot agree with this,,,,,,,I came to Christ a filthy rag,though I was not a homosexual my lifestyle made them look like angels,,,,,,,I came to Christ wanting to be Saved,I was an undeserving wretched sinner,,,,,,& I was transformed into a New Creature,,,,,why can't a homosexual come to Christ as they are? To God be the Glory,He died for us while we were still in sin With love-in Christ,Kwik This is what I am in agreement with when I posted earlier. Come as you are. There are many sins, that are obvious to be observed in a person who first comes to believe, does the bible have a test of what sins are repented of before baptism? Doesn't it say believe and be baptized? Anyone truly repented I would think will find what the bible has to say about homosexuality, but it may be some time after baptism for some. Just as other sins are dealt with in us by our Lord as we grow, I'm just wondering if there is scripture singling out this one sin over all the other sins, in regards to coming to be water baptized. I think some are talking about those who want to be baptized, yet openly live in sin and refuse to allow scripture to be truth in their lives, and I guess I wasn't quite on the same page there lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted July 9, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.81 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted July 9, 2016 8 minutes ago, kwikphilly said: What leads you to the impression that I do not/cannot or do/can believe anything?,,,,,how could anyone possibly know what an individual is going to do?Only God knows the heart of an individual,I cannot sit here & categorize "homosexuals",,,, each 'sinner" is a person,an individual human being,,,,,when that person comes to Christ it is u p to them whether or not they are truly repentant or if they are just giving lip service,.I have no way of knowing whether or not they will have a renewing of the mind & be transformed into a new Creature in Christ Jesus,or not,,,,,if there is no "change " it is probably safe to assume they were not Saved ,we can only know them by ther fruits & the Discernment by the Power of the Holy Spirit With love-in Christ,Kwik Yes,it is between that person and God. We do not know the heart only God does. But we will all be going through a judgment. For the believers it is the Bema Seat of Christ/Judgment seat of Christ. For the unbelievers it is the Great White Throne Judgment. Whatever we did while in these bodies on earth will be judged. Should we do whatever feels good or should we conscientiously try to do our best to please God and be salt and light of this world and listen to the Holy Spirit within us? Should we do our best to do what God's Word tells us to do? Of course we sin every day and often we do not even realize that we are sinning. God knows that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTC Posted July 9, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 200 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 2,795 Content Per Day: 0.65 Reputation: 1,502 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/25/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/26/1952 Share Posted July 9, 2016 Yes, of course they should. And today more so than in the past. Why? Because today many homosexuals, especially young ones and people raised by 2 same sex parents, may not even believe or realize that homosexuality is a sin. Now I'm not saying anyone should go find a practicing gay person and talk them into it. I'm talking about a gay person who feels the pull of God on his or her life comes to a church and asks to be baptized. As has been pointed out already, who ever came to God after overcoming their sins? Not me. I also make to make a few other points here. Homosexuality is a sin of the flesh and that means 1 of the hardest to deal with. Especially in our sexually obsessed society. Have you ever realized that if a single person doesn't have a sex life, in our society, that person is made to feel like he or she is a freak of nature or that there is something seriously wrong with them? I realized that a long time ago. Now consider this. Suppose a heterosexual person wants to be married but just can't find a mate. What choices does he/she have? Commit fornication, adultery, live a life of masturbation which will probably include pornography. Should we baptize them? Yes. I mean so long as they want to be baptized. Is homosexuality worse (to God not us) than fornication, adultery or constant masturbation? Not according to the Bible it isn't. If a heterosexual person can't find a mate that person's only choice is to live celibate. Unless that person is happy living in sin and always knowing he/she is doing something wrong in God's eyes. It is the same for the gay person. They only have this 1 option and if our society wasn't sexually obsessed it wouldn't be so hard for them. I mean both the gay person and the unmarried straight person. Just to remind you all again, I am only talking about people who feel the call of God, not people who hate God and have no desire to know Him whatsoever. Also remember God has called us all at different ages and circumstances. Therefore, don't judge anyone but rather be open to them one day realizing God wants them. Never assume a person won't be called someday by God because of their current sins. So yes, anyone who comes to us and wants baptism or to say the sinners prayer with us we must do it. If we do not then we are guilty of an even worse sin. We'd be pushing someone away whom God has chosen. Amen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted July 9, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.81 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted July 9, 2016 This is how I see it: Question: "Do Christians sin?" Answer: Before exploring whether or not Christians sin, let’s define a couple of terms. Regardless of how tattered the word Christian has become throughout history, the biblical definition of a “Christian” is one who is a Christ-follower, a disciple of Jesus (Acts 11:26). A Christian is NOT someone who has ascribed to a particular set of religious beliefs or practices, joined a church, prayed a prayer, or participated in certain sacraments or rituals. A Christian is a person who has responded to the conviction of the Holy Spirit (John 6:44) by putting his or her whole faith in the finished work of Christ for salvation (Ephesians 2:8–9; John 3:15–18). Christians are those who have repented of their sin and have made Jesus Lord of their lives (Romans 10:9–10; Acts 2:38). They are born again by the power of the Holy Spirit (John 3:6–7). “Sin” is any thought, word, or action that is contrary to the character or law of God. We all sin (Romans 3:23), and even what we consider good deeds are often tainted by selfish motives or pride (Isaiah 64:6). Left to ourselves, it is impossible to please God or to be completely free from sin (Romans 3:10; Ecclesiastes 7:10). When we come to Christ by faith and trust Him to forgive and cleanse us of all our sin, we are in that moment born again (John 3:3). That new birth of the spirit results in a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17). God gives the repentant sinner a new heart that is now turned toward obeying and pleasing Him rather than self (2 Corinthians 5:9; Romans 8:5–6). Whereas we were formerly slaves to sin, we are now “slaves to righteousness” (Romans 6:16). Sin’s control has been broken by the power of Jesus (Romans 6:6; Titus 2:14). However, we still live in the flesh, and the flesh is prone to want what it wants. In Romans 7:21–23, Paul admits the battle between flesh and spirit in his own life: “So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me.” Each battle with temptation is won or lost based upon how fully we are surrendered to the control of the Holy Spirit (Galatians 5:16–17). The book of 1 John was written to Christians. The apostle says, “If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:8–9). It is clear from this passage that even those who have been born again and redeemed by the blood of Jesus will still sin. Through thought, attitude, or action, we will “grieve” (Ephesians 4:30) and “quench” (1 Thessalonians 5:19) the Holy Spirit at times. But this passage also reassures us that God offers continual, ongoing grace whenever we agree with Him about our sin and ask for His cleansing. However, other passages clarify the boundaries of this ocean of grace. First John 3:6 says, “No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.” Verse 9 says that those who have been “born of God” will not continue to live sinfully. The implication is that this is not a matter of trying harder. Rather, it is the equivalent of saying, “A fish cannot remain on land for long because its nature is to seek water.” A fish could flop onto the shore and survive for a short time. But it was not made for land and cannot continue there. When we are born again, our natures change, and we cannot continue in sin. Christ not only erases our past sin; He also transforms our hearts so that we no longer desire it (Colossians 2:13–14). Paul asked, “What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?” (Romans 6:1–2). Although Christians will still sin after being saved, the heart change that the Holy Spirit brings will result in a new attitude toward sin. Sin cannot continue being a lifestyle choice if we have surrendered our lives to Jesus. That’s what it means to say that Jesus is Lord (Romans 10:9; Colossians 2:6). We have a new boss. We cannot be followers of Christ and followers of sin at the same time. They are going in opposite directions (Luke 9:23; 14:33). Romans 12:2 instructs, “Be transformed by the renewing of your mind.” Renewal can take some time, but it is a process that produces a change of behavior. When a true child of God goes astray, our Father administers discipline to bring him back into obedience. Hebrews 12:7–8 says, “It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.” If a professing Christian can choose a lifestyle of sin without experiencing enough discipline to bring them to repentance, then according to this Scripture, it is highly unlikely that that person is a child of God. Do Christians sin? Yes. Do they willfully continue in sin? No. Scripture indicates that, while we will always “fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23), we have the hope that the power of God is at work in us to “make us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image” (2 Corinthians 3:18, NLT). http://www.gotquestions.org/do-Christians-sin.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyAngeL Posted July 10, 2016 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 23 Topic Count: 155 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,464 Content Per Day: 1.02 Reputation: 8,810 Days Won: 57 Joined: 03/30/2004 Status: Offline Birthday: 12/12/1952 Share Posted July 10, 2016 4 hours ago, kwikphilly said: What leads you to the impression that I do not/cannot or do/can believe anything?,,,,,how could anyone possibly know what an individual is going to do?Only God knows the heart of an individual,I cannot sit here & categorize "homosexuals",,,, each 'sinner" is a person,an individual human being,,,,,when that person comes to Christ it is u p to them whether or not they are truly repentant or if they are just giving lip service,.I have no way of knowing whether or not they will have a renewing of the mind & be transformed into a new Creature in Christ Jesus,or not,,,,,if there is no "change " it is probably safe to assume they were not Saved ,we can only know them by ther fruits & the Discernment by the Power of the Holy Spirit With love-in Christ,Kwik And as far as I"m concerned we have talked this homosexuality issue right into the ground. Thank you Kwik for the answer that continues to be on the right path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1to3 Posted July 10, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 139 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 4,220 Content Per Day: 1.23 Reputation: 3,075 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/28/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 10, 2016 (edited) 4 hours ago, JTC said: Yes, of course they should. And today more so than in the past. Why? Because today many homosexuals, especially young ones and people raised by 2 same sex parents, may not even believe or realize that homosexuality is a sin. Now I'm not saying anyone should go find a practicing gay person and talk them into it. I'm talking about a gay person who feels the pull of God on his or her life comes to a church and asks to be baptized. As has been pointed out already, who ever came to God after overcoming their sins? Not me. I also make to make a few other points here. Homosexuality is a sin of the flesh and that means 1 of the hardest to deal with. Especially in our sexually obsessed society. Have you ever realized that if a single person doesn't have a sex life, in our society, that person is made to feel like he or she is a freak of nature or that there is something seriously wrong with them? I realized that a long time ago. Now consider this. Suppose a heterosexual person wants to be married but just can't find a mate. What choices does he/she have? Commit fornication, adultery, live a life of masturbation which will probably include pornography. Should we baptize them? Yes. I mean so long as they want to be baptized. Is homosexuality worse (to God not us) than fornication, adultery or constant masturbation? Not according to the Bible it isn't. If a heterosexual person can't find a mate that person's only choice is to live celibate. Unless that person is happy living in sin and always knowing he/she is doing something wrong in God's eyes. It is the same for the gay person. They only have this 1 option and if our society wasn't sexually obsessed it wouldn't be so hard for them. I mean both the gay person and the unmarried straight person. Just to remind you all again, I am only talking about people who feel the call of God, not people who hate God and have no desire to know Him whatsoever. Also remember God has called us all at different ages and circumstances. Therefore, don't judge anyone but rather be open to them one day realizing God wants them. Never assume a person won't be called someday by God because of their current sins. So yes, anyone who comes to us and wants baptism or to say the sinners prayer with us we must do it. If we do not then we are guilty of an even worse sin. We'd be pushing someone away whom God has chosen. Amen? Thank you for writing this down. Yes it is God that draws us to Him. God drawed Jacob to Him, but Jacob was not always honest and good before He met God in a wrestling match, God had to work in Jacobs life until Jacob finally surrendered after wrestling with God and God finally won over Jacob. But Jacob was left with a bad leg from the struggle Yet his name was changed that day after the struggle from Jacob to Israel. so yes God does draw us to him. Yet we with our sinful nature continue to struggle with God Most everyone who has had a struggle with sin, has had to be brought to their knees before being willing to be led by God. And even then, the struggle may still continue within especially if the spirits of sin are still there to taunt the one wanting repentance. They call this in some christian circles as having an oppressive spirit that is keeping them from receiving all the gifts that God desires to give them. Having an oppressive spirit can be one of drug addiction, alcohol addiction, smoking addiction, pornography addiction sexual addiction,masturbation addiction, eating addiction and the list of addictions goes on... From what I have come to understand if you do really love God and want salvation from God through His only begotten Son Christ Jesus and have repented and asked God to repeatedly take away your sin oppression, yes because you do realize that they are sins and yes you feel bad about yourself after you fall back in your sin that even though you hate the sin you are doing and you know it is wrong, you somehow get tempted to the point of going for your sin and fall in it once again. Yes you feel bad about it afterwards, you even hate yourself about it and once again you ask God to please forgive you and help you overcome this particular oppressive sin that is in your life even though you want to be free from it and follow God without any sin in your life. does that mean that you, who have oppressive sin, even though you know it is sin, even though you hate that sin, but somehow find yourself tempted and sometimes you fall in that sin, even though you ask God for forgiveness afterwards, does that make you NOT REALLY a christian? I know there are two christian lines of thought here.: 1) some believe you must live your life absolutely FREE from ALL manner of Sin in order to find God and reunite with Him in heaven or else you are not a Christian and you are going to HELL. 2) the other is you realize your sins, you don't want to do them, and really try your best to not sin, and do ask God through Christ Jesus to help you overcome that sin, yet you still seem unable to fully free yourself from sin, but that you still are a Christian because the Blood of Jesus is covering you even while you may fall in sin yet repent and feel bad about it and are truly looking to be free from it.. AS long as you keep desiring to be free from a particular sin, you will eventually be free from that sin and if you die in that sin while you still are believing in God plan of Mercy and Grace through His only begotten son Christ Jesus you will be saved from hell. and will still be accepted into heaven Which one of the two is correct? does it mean that you are NOT Truly saved if you are still battling with any of these oppressive sins/addictions, any sin at all for that matter? and if so why do some say as christian you can never become possessed but you can be oppressed by sin ? And if you remain oppressed by some sin, does that mean you who may think you are a christian but are really not, and that you are going to Hell? I battle with these questions constantly, because i realize that I am a sinner and part of my flesh is still sinful. when I fall in sin, I don't really feel good about myself, as a matter of fact i hate myself for having been so week or so under sin/flesh control that it blinded me to the point of falling into sin. And I do repent of it and ask for my sin(s) to be removed from my life through Christ Jesus I know that for in my life, it has taken a lot of waking up and giving up many things of the world. And I know God has helped me so far, because I really DO want to live for Christ Jesus, yet I know that there is still a lot of overcoming that i need to overcome. I believe growing in Christ Jesus is a process and that as long as we seek Him and His will for our lives, yes He does help us overcome sin, and the things that we once did we do no more or much less of as we want to very much live Christ-like and sin no more. I would very much want to live absolutely free from sin, but I cannot honestly say that i am totally and always free from sin? can you? I have not yet succeeded at living absolutely free from ALL sin even though I do everyday seek the Lord and try to follow Christ Jesus in my day, in my interaction with everything i come into contact with, I do love God with all my heart, and I have grown more and more into trusting Him an in being faithful to Him alone. I do feel bad for the sins that I still happen to fall into at times and I do repent of my sins and ask God to remove them from me. I believe that through Christ Jesus I have overcome many ungodly ways of living, but am I going to hell because I still have not overcome all my sins all of the time? I still don't know the full answer to that and many times I feel like a failure because I can't seem to be completely be free from my sin nature. By sins i means ALL possible sins that includes, ALL sins, our daily conduct interacting with people everyday. are we always interacting Christ -like with everybody at all times? Do we ever loose our temper in anger? Are we free from all resentments? Do we still battle with laziness at times? keeping our home immaculate? are there still people we need to stop having resentments about? Are we we free from being judgemental of other people? Are we free from anxiety issues, depression issues, Are we free from weight issues? alcohol issues, drug issues, smoking issues?, sexual issues? all lust lust of the flesh issues ? Really it includes all sins. Are we true Christians if we still fall into any type sin ? From what I understand a christian is, is someone who has called upon the Lord and asked for His help, His forgiveness and accepted that His only begotten Son Christ Jesus died on the cross for ALL of our sins, and that through Him we become covered from our sin as our old flesh nature is covered by His blood, and that without the shed Blood of Christ Jesus that was shed for the remission of our sins that we cannot come into the presence of God. It is only through the shed BLOOD of Jesus that we are bought back from sin and allowed back into the presence of God. Yes in Christ we slowly become new Creations, we no longer love the sin life and our goal is to be free from all sin even though our flesh nature is not yet fully perfected at once the moment we are saved, yet through Christ working in our hearts, transforming our hearts we become step by step His new creation free from the strongholds of sin that use to tie us down. I have not had to struggle personalty with homosexuality but i have known someone who killed himself at eighteen because he was still homosexual. This person was of the Jewish faith. I personally have no judgement on this. He was a distant friend school acquaintance and his loss made me very sad. I believe that if a person is drawn to God and His plan of Mercy and Grace through Christ Jesus, this person will feel convicted of his sins and will want to be cleansed from them and also delivered of them. If they have repented and asked Christ Jesus to come into their hearts , they will be looking to free themselves of their sinful nature, and step by step with Gods help, they will become over comers , they will no longer desire to live a sinful lifestyle, they will choose a living that does not promote sin but rather promotes Christ living and Christ conscientiousness. What about the two sinners on the cross, one remained defiant and mocked Christ while the other said we deserve our sins but you don't, if possible can you forgive my sins? Christ Jesus did say to the one who recognized and repented their sins and asked for forgiveness, that he would be with Him in paradise. I think as it has been mentioned about being proud of their sin with a defiant heart, like the one of the two sinners dying next to Christ Jesus, one, remained defiant to the end, and so Christ Jesus could not save him. While the other sinner, recognizing their sinful nature ,repented, asking for Gods Mercy and Grace, and so Christ Jesus could save him. I think also of Saul who could have asked for forgiveness even to the end of his life but rather, his heart was hardened and he remained defiant till the end, Sauls defiant heart kept him away from God. God looks at the heart and true intent of man. 1) Is this man who is homosexual, does he desire truly from his heart to change his defiant ways by becoming baptized in Christ Jesus and live as an over comer in Christ Jesus from his sins? or 2) is he searching to be baptized in a christian Church to defiantly defend his gay rights status? There is the difference. Edited July 10, 2016 by 1to3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 10, 2016 Share Posted July 10, 2016 If they are a new "Christian," then they are apostate if they believe that homosexuality is acceptable to GOD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kan Posted July 10, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,661 Content Per Day: 0.49 Reputation: 1,292 Days Won: 2 Joined: 12/21/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 10, 2016 It seems that the question of the thread may be a challenge to those who have underestimated the power of God and conversion, and have faithlessly resorted to human efforts and resolutions as the power behind baptism. The preaching of true faith changes people. It seems like a weak gospel has been circulating in Christendom, one that puts greater expectations on the sinner than required, and one that denies the ability of Christ to remove sin. In the days of the apostles, people with worse sins than mentioned, were converted and baptized, and some even fell from grace by returning to their old ways. In this case Paul urged the church members to talk with the offender and if they did not want to give up their sins by faithful obedience to the Lord, they were put out of their assemblies. It goes without saying that the gospel requires a sacrifice of the sinner on the altar of total surrender, which includes a full renunciation of all sin. This kind of Gospel is not preached, but rather that we are saved in our sins. The Gospel of Christ is the power of God to change people, to remove sin from their lives. The onus is not on the sinner to remove sin from themselves, but to have faith in Christ to remove sin for them. How can the sinner's faith be pure, if they are offered the false doctrine of being saved in sin, rather than from sin. The real Christ came to save us from sin, and not to leave us in it. Who is the world worshiping as Christ if not the Antichrist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted July 10, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted July 10, 2016 10 hours ago, GoldenEagle said: Should a person who is openly homosexual be baptized? Short Answer: No. Why? Repentance precedes baptism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldenEagle Posted July 10, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 764 Topics Per Day: 0.18 Content Count: 7,626 Content Per Day: 1.81 Reputation: 1,559 Days Won: 44 Joined: 10/03/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted July 10, 2016 2 hours ago, RustyAngeL said: And as far as I"m concerned we have talked this homosexuality issue right into the ground. Thank you Kwik for the answer that continues to be on the right path. Nobody is forcing anyone to participate or share their thoughts. I agree Kwik gave a good perspective. ? God bless GE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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