Marcus O'Reillius Posted August 4, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,050 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 632 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/29/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 4, 2016 16 hours ago, Last Daze said: I agree that the day of the Lord is when we are gathered to Him. We also know that the day of the Lord comes like a thief in the night. If His coming like a thief (day of the Lord) happens at the sixth seal, as indicated above, then why does He say that He is coming like a thief as the armies gather for Armageddon in Rev 16:15? Rev 16:15 does happen AFTER the Harvest! But we also know that the Remnant Jews are protected by God, with the "earth swallowing them up" - from the twin parallel accounts of chapter 12: 6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness where she *had a place prepared by God, so that there she would be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days. 16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and drank up the river which the dragon poured out of his mouth. Now if you think the earth is spiritually alive to "open up its mouth" - then you mistake figurative speech for literal action. The earth will help, but it does so with God's guidance. Here is another: Isa 42:15 "I will lay waste the mountains and hills And wither all their vegetation; I will make the rivers into coastlands And dry up the ponds. 16 "I will lead the blind by a way they do not know, In paths they do not know I will guide them. I will make darkness into light before them And rugged places into plains. These are the things I will do, And I will not leave them undone." The Remnant Jews are "blind" - they miss out on the Rapture / they ignore the Gospel - BUT God has discerned their heart nevertheless, and has a Plan for them in the Millennium. In conjunction with God's Wrath, He will marshal them through the wilderness - like He did before for forty years - and He will find safe haven for them - not only away from the Serpent that wants to kill them - but also from the devastations of His Wrath. Let's look at what happens IF the people in Rev 16:15 DON'T DO as God says: 15 ("Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his clothes, so that he will not walk about naked and men will not see his shame.") For those who from Judea who don't go back for their cloak; for those in Jerusalem who leave through the newly cleft Mount of Olives - they are literally traveling with only the clothes on their back. WHEN Jesus comes to marshal them from one place to another - they must be ready to move IMMEDIATELY. What is the penalty if they do not keep their clothes? Shame from nakedness... They are not left behind. They are not thrown into the furnace of God's Wrath. For the five foolish virgins - when they take the mark of the beast to buy oil - they are locked out of the wedding feast involving the five wise virgins. They face God's Wrath. Not so with the people who don't keep their clothes - and these are not figurative robes of righteousness like the Saints wear in Rev 7:9-17; these are their own clothes. So while Jesus unleashes God's Wrath which makes the earth so uninhabitable that the wicked die wholesale, He keeps His sheep safe.Rev 16:15 concerns the Remnant Jews who are left behind, but protected physically - so as to be able to enter the Sabbath Millennium Reign of Christ Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted August 4, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 4, 2016 47 minutes ago, Marcus O'Reillius said: So we do have the sign of the Day of the Lord, the sun/moon/star event, coming immediately after the days of the Great Tribulation - which are shortened by the Father so that all (applicable) life not be lost. (The only applicable life that is being lost are those who disobey the two laws put into effect with the midpoint abomination by the false prophet: worship or die / can't buy or sell.) We even have agreement on the sign of the Son of Man / Scrolling of the sky tied in between the two. Now how long are we to wait for the gathering from the clouds by Jesus and His Angels? For a Post-Trib (last day) adherent, of course you see an indeterminate amount of time lapsing until that happens. And of course, next you're expecting the Wrath of God to be brought to bear. You place the Rapture at the end of the one 'seven' if I guess your eschatology correctly. I guess we could ping-pong back and forth endlessly but ultimately how we perceive things has no bearing on how they will come to pass. I think we both understand the need for the body of Christ to be ready for a time of great tribulation and that that should be our emphasis since those days are approaching quickly. Thanks for the back-and-forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus O'Reillius Posted August 4, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,050 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 632 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/29/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 4, 2016 Moving on with the integration of Revelation chapter 12: The twin parallel accounts of Revelation Chapter 12 Rev 12:1 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. 5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who "will rule all the nations with an iron scepter." And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days. 7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him. 10 Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Messiah. For the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down. 11 They triumphed over him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death. 12 Therefore rejoice, you heavens and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short." 13 When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14 The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the wilderness, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent's reach. 15 Then from his mouth the serpent spewed water like a river, to overtake the woman and sweep her away with the torrent. 16 But the earth helped the woman by opening its mouth and swallowing the river that the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring —those who keep God's commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus. The first thing to address is the placement of Revelation 12 after the Seal/Scroll account of Revelation chapters 4-11. Some commentaries will ascribe the events described in this as part of the seventh Trumpet desolation. However, at the end of chapter 11, not only has the end of the one ‘seven’ taken place, but the timeline has moved on to judging of the wicked (the anti-Christ and false prophet who were captured alive at Armageddon) and rewarding the Saints resurrected to life eternal (there are seven types of Crowns for the faithful). In criticism of such commentaries, no desolation is described in chapter 12; “Satan” is not a condition of desolation. While the Seal/Scroll account is silent about the seventh Trumpet’s third Woe; that has more to do with John’s obedience not to reveal anything which would disclose what the seven thunders spoke. The revelation of the third Woe is then shifted to the finale of the one ‘seven’ in the parallel account to the Seal/Scroll chronology in Revelation chapters 13-16. In accordance with God’s Will, the pronouncement of the seven thunders remains a mystery. Rather than be a continuation of chapter 11, chapter 12 marks a new account. Here the scene changes from within the Temple to the time of Jesus’ birth. The woman is a sign in Heaven, but that figuratively harkens back to Joseph’s dream in Genesis 37:9-10. The woman is the nation of Israel, and it is from the Jews that Salvation comes. The focus has changed from a chronology of events in the end-times to the role of Israel in the end times. The basic division is in two, with the woman being the first up to verse 6, and Satan being the subject from verse 7 to the end. I would preserve that basic division. Normally, the word ‘then,’ would set up a follow-on event. However, in this case, there is a telltale marker for parallel account construction: the repeated event in both accounts at their end: the hiding of the woman for one half of the one ‘seven.’ This repetition of a specific and unique event is a marker of parallel account construction, where an event is viewed from different perspective or focus. The scene changes as well between verses six and seven; it goes from half of the one ‘seven,’ on earth to a battle in Heaven. This battle is contested in commentaries as to when it happens with many opinions. Some notes here from a sequence of events perspective include: Satan loses his place in Heaven He is the accuser The Kingdom of God is realized The Messiah has authority The Blood of the Lamb cleanses the Saints His time is “short.” Satan immediately pursues Israel leading to the same time period in the first account After His Resurrection, Jesus told Mary He had not yet seen the Father. In Zechariah chapter 3, Satan accuses Jesus and he is rebuked twice by God the Father. It is my conclusion that Zechariah 3 is that meeting. Indeed, Joshua (Yeshua, Iesous, Jesus) has “sin” lifted by the removal of His clothes. This explains in one manner why Mary could not hold onto Jesus: she would be tampering with the “evidence,” and/or she could also be spiritually contaminated. As a side note, who are the “men wondered at” in Zechariah 3? I think these Saints fulfill the Psalm 68 that “captives” followed in His train when He ascended into Heaven. I think they form the basis for the 24 Elders who have been in Heaven for 2000 earth years by the time of the end when John is translated to third Heaven. Satan had falsely accused Jesus and for this he is censured and loses his standing in the Court of Heaven. As Jesus rules, when the Saints show up, no accuser stands before God to accuse them, and without the prosecution present, the Saints are not judged innocent, but simply not guilty. Moreover, with Jesus defending the Saints, the Saints are justified through the Lamb. Jesus rules and His Kingdom is realized. The third aspect is that when Satan is thrown down, he immediately pursues Israel. This happened in the next generation and has gone on from the First Jewish Revolt from the first century through the second some 60 years later, to the Diaspora, and onward through anti-Semitism in Europe to outright persecution/war with the rise of Islam. For a spiritual entity who is immortal, two days (where a thousand years is but a day) would be a short time. It is my conclusion that the time frame for verse 7 harkens back to the First Advent of Christ and roughly matches the starting timeframe for the twin parallel account of Israel in verses 1-6. Chapter 12 is a chapter of twin parallel accounts. It gives us an age bridging, time eliminating, God-perspective on fundamental relationships spanning two thousand years. It gives us an important, repeated event with the protection of the “woman” and it defines the relationship between natural-born Israel and her spiritual offspring: Christians. The sequence of events breaks down as follows: v. 2 – Jesus is about to be born v. 4 – Satan is ready to swallow up the infant v. 5 – Jesus is born v. 5 – Jesus ascends to Heaven v. 6 – The woman flees to the wilderness for one half of the one ‘seven’ --------------------------------------------- v. 9 – Satan tossed out of Heaven v. 13 – He pursues Israel v. 14 – Israel is removed from Satan’s pursuit for one half of the one ‘seven’ v. 17 – Satan turns his attention to Christians The first five verses are tied to the First Advent of Christ. Likewise, I am going to tie verses 9 and 13 to the time immediately after the First Advent of Christ. For the study of the end-times in prophecy we have the repeated escape for one half of the one ‘seven’ in common. The two accounts can be combined around Jesus’ First Advent and that half as follows: Mary is pregnant Satan desires to kill the Messiah Jesus is born Jesus ascends to Heaven to rule Satan is tossed out of Heaven Satan pursues Israel Israel is protected for half of the one ‘seven’ Christians are targeted instead Rather than have Satan come down at the start of the one ‘seven’ like most usual commentaries, the persecution of Israel has been going on since the first century. The first six bullet points are relegated to the past. Only the last two bullet points need to be incorporated into the climax of Man’s Age the one ‘seven’ represents which in turn, gives birth to the Millennium. When is Israel protected? Well previously in the Olivet Discourse, Jesus prayed for those in Judea flee to the mountains, and indeed the earth will “swallow up” their pursuit. As Judea is in the south of Israel, they escape the flooding invasion from the North when the anti-Christ stops at Jerusalem at the midpoint. Therefore, those in Judea flee at the midpoint and they are protected for the second half of the one ‘seven.’ The half mentioned in both twin parallel accounts is the second half. Likewise, when the first contingent of the Remnant of Israel that enters the Millennium flees from Judea, Satan turns his attention to Christians. It is at the midpoint when those in Judea flee that the midpoint abomination occurs. This previously has been shown in the detail account of the Rise and Fall of the anti-Christ in Revelation chapters 13-16 to happen with the two onerous laws Christians are explicitly told not to follow which has such devastating effects upon their material well-being that the Elect are nearly eliminated from the face of the Earth. The Great Tribulation is when Satan shifts from oppression to outright persecution he would have visited upon the Jews. The sequencing of the one half of the one ‘seven’ cannot be determined by Revelation 12 alone; only by tying in the Olivet Discourse with its Keystone ordering of specific and unique events and Revelation chapters 13-16 can we safely conclude the half mentioned is in the second half of the one ‘seven.’ Bullet points to be added: Those in Judea flee at the midpoint. The first part of the Remnant are protected for the rest of the one ‘seven.’ The Elect are persecuted. War (on Terror) between North and South The rise of the fourth terrible beast of a nation out of the “sea” with ten Kings (Council of Ministers) Little horn "hamstrings" three "Kings" to rise to power over the Beast of a Nation Rebellion occurs Opposition and exaltation Covenant with many prevailed by the Roman ruler who will come Authority given (by God) to the beast of a man for one-half of the one 'seven' He wages war against the Saints We are to endure patiently (remember Rev 3:10 and John 17:15) Temple w/ Gentiles 42 mos. Rise of the false prophet with miracles and 'fire from the sky' The “one” removed from the midst Gog/Magog War - flash flood invasion of Holy Land Armies surround Jerusalem - pitches his tent at the Holy Mountain. Midpoint Abomination - Setting up the talking image of the anti-Christ Those in Judea flee / Remnant protected Two laws which make the Great Tribulation the worst time ever “Mikael" arises Two Witnesses 1260 days - call down Wrath Great Tribulation - the Elect are persecuted Sun/moon/star event Day of the LORD. Scrolling of the sky = sign of the Son of Man Jesus touches down on Mount Zion Mustering the 144,000 on Mount Zion with Jesus standing upon the earth 3 Angels fulfill the Great Commission / Warn the wicked The Last Trumpet Call of God Dead in Christ are Resurrected Son of Man coming on the clouds with the Saints Harvest Redemption / Gathering Elect from the earth Those who are alive and are left are gathered up Great Multitude arrive in Heaven out of the Great Tribulation Books / Scroll opened with breaking of seventh Seal First Trumpet fire and blood – 1/3rd of earth burned Avenging Angels – supplying Blood and managing the Fire Wrath of God following the Day of the Lord Second Trumpet - 1/3rd of sea to blood Third Trumpet - 1/3rd of water bitter Fourth Trumpet - 1/3rd of light struck Fifth Trumpet Abyss opened 5 months torment Sixth Trumpet WWIII - 1/3rdf of man killed Seventh Trumpet First Bowl - Sores on Man Second Bowl - All sea to blood Third Bowl - All water to blood Fourth Bowl - Seared by heat Fifth Bowl - Satan's kingdom in the dark Sixth Bowl - Way for the King of the East - Battle at Armageddon Two Witnesses die from Demon from Abyss The Great Multitude and the 24 Elders rejoice in Heaven Jesus and His army (144,000 go out to do battle Seventh Bowl – Man of Lawlessness is undone: end with desolations poured out on the Roman desolator Victory at Armageddon anti-Christ and false prophet captured Two Witnesses arise Earth changing earthquake End of the one ‘seven’ Beast of a Man thrown into Hell – done away with entirely First three beasts allowed to live a while (30/45 day periods) Christ returns to Heaven Satan imprisoned Martyrs made alive Rewarding the Saints Establishment of Millennium reign of Christ Saints rule the earth Satan released at end of Millennium Revolt of the nations / their destruction Great White Throne Judgment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus O'Reillius Posted August 5, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,050 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 632 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/29/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 5, 2016 The Millennium The issue of placing the Rapture within the end-times is heady enough, so some would think it too much to solve the dilemma of the Millennium. When Jesus comes, whenever that might be in one’s eschatology, the question of the Jews comes up. The reason the Millennium exists in my opinion, is that it is the road to the Jews’ Salvation; this is the path they must take and it is told in the Old Testament, since they “miss” the parousia of Christ because they do not yet believe Jesus is their Messiah. So who is left behind? One answer as to that would be the wicked. Another is the Jews, who don’t accept Christ as their Savior if they prove as stubborn as they have in the past to the Gospel message. Still another group to be included might be the meek, since they inherit the earth, but then inheritance is a Christian attribute as well. However, one thing is certain: the proud among the wicked will not survive the one desolations God has decreed which do take place in the one ‘seven.’ One question as to how Israel might view Jesus’ sudden and otherwise unexpected arrival is the figurative language of the Songs of Solomon 5:2-8. Here reminiscent of the Former and Latter Rains to describe Jesus’ two Advents, the Lord comes but the woman is unwilling to answer. Shutting herself up for a little while has her literally missing the boat. This is also covered in Isaiah 26:20. In another verse previously incorporated from Zechariah 14:4 involving the splitting of the Mount of Olives on the Day of the Lord, which also aptly describes and explains the second earthquake of the sixth Seal, is verse 5 where those in Jerusalem also flee from that city through the newly cleft valley to the West, and perhaps then to the South to the “wilderness” of the desert. This would be the second group to join the previous portion of the Remnant Jews who fled from Judea at the midpoint. The final and third group of Jews to survive the one ‘seven’ would be those who mourned what had been happening there when Jesus takes the Temple on the Day of the Lord as described in Ezekiel chapter 9. It is interesting to note that Ezekiel sees a man with a writing kit, and John had such material with him in Revelation chapter 10:4, who might again be a chance meeting of the two. In the Seal/Scroll chronology the survivors of the Great Earthquake finally glorify God in verse 13, which would coincide with the end of the one ‘seven.’ This group of people is also included in Isaiah 4:3. These would constitute a third portion of the Remnant, the third of the Jews who survive the Days of Awe to come to Atonement with the Lord as described in Zechariah in both instances. Showing the Jews as being protected through the Wrath of God by God then has them moving around quite a bit in the wilderness reminiscent of their sojourn leaving Egypt before coming to the Promised Land. This view of the end-times then aptly explains why Jesus would again “come like a thief” in Rev 16:15. The Remnant Jews need to be moved around as indicated by Isaiah 42:16. Jesus’ “coming like a thief” is a descriptive term and not necessarily a specific and unique event. It describes “how” He comes. Jesus can be said to come at night, to come to steal the most valuable thing in the world from the “strong man” (the Elect), or to come physically like a thief as God’s Army is portrayed in Joel 2 climbing over walls and through windows. But another aspect of “coming like a thief” has to do with the nature by which He does it for those who are not watching like the Elect: He is unexpected. That is why in Rev 16:15, those who are not dressed are not punished or left behind; they simply move on albeit naked. Rev 16:15 marries with Isaiah 42:16; the Remnant is on the move in the second half of the one ‘seven.’ All in all, the Remnant, mentioned also in Isaiah 10:20-21 are a factor to be included in any competent eschatology. The aspect of the Jews as God’s Chosen People must be answered and God has a plan as Paul discerned in Romans 11:25-26. The Millennium is for the Jews, a time of peace where they come to know their Messiah King as the same Servant Messiah they had previously rejected. While the purpose and dispensation of the Millennium takes a whole chapter the portions of the Remnant are added into the sequence of events. Taking some of Zechariah and Isaiah further, a simple summation will be presented for the purpose of the 30 and 45 day periods of Daniel 12: they account for the traveling to Mount Zion and the subsequent encampment before the Remnant “makes it” to the Millennium. To be sure, this is one requirement for a person’s physical salvation if they are in that group, they must “reach” that period so as to be so blessed with Christ’s presence on the Earth. Israel’s Remnant’s veil of Moses is lifted by Jesus after the “Days of Awe.” This is the “Atonement” of Yom Kippur. This is when the Jews have their “Jesus moment,” and realize their mistake. They also know from some of the one gathered up that don’t have their “wedding garments” on (Salvation through faith in Jesus) that the Wedding Feast of the Lord has commenced and they have missed out. Surrounded by desolation, they weep. This is the gnashing of teeth reserved to those thrown out of the Feast: they are not relegated to Hell, but Earth in its destroyed state with all the regret possible. The 45 day encampment then fulfills the last of the Fall Festivals which Paul said as a pattern for what was to come as the Sukkot, the temporary dwellings. Bullet points to be added: (Jewish portion in orange) Jews flee through the cleft of the Mount of Olives – Day of the Lord Jews survive the earthquake in Jerusalem – end of the one ‘seven’ Travel to Mount Zion (by Jews and others) – 30 day period The Encampment at Mount Zion – 45 day period War (on Terror) between North and South The rise of the fourth terrible beast of a nation out of the “sea” with ten Kings (Council of Ministers) Little horn "hamstrings" three "Kings" to rise to power over the Beast of a Nation Rebellion occurs Opposition and exaltation Covenant with many prevailed by the Roman ruler who will come Authority given (by God) to the beast of a man for one-half of the one 'seven' He wages war against the Saints We are to endure patiently (remember Rev 3:10 and John 17:15) Temple w/ Gentiles 42 mos. Rise of the false prophet with miracles and 'fire from the sky' The “one” removed from the midst Gog/Magog War - flash flood invasion of Holy Land Armies surround Jerusalem - pitches his tent at the Holy Mountain. Midpoint Abomination - Setting up the talking image of the anti-Christ Those in Judea flee / Remnant protected Two laws which make the Great Tribulation the worst time ever “Mikael" arises Two Witnesses 1260 days - call down Wrath Great Tribulation - the Elect are persecuted Sun/moon/star event Day of the LORD Scrolling of the sky = sign of the Son of Man Jesus touches down on Mount Zion Jews flee through the cleft of the Mount of Olives Mustering the 144,000 on Mount Zion with Jesus standing upon the earth 3 Angels fulfill the Great Commission / Warn the wicked The Last Trumpet Call of God Dead in Christ are Resurrected Son of Man coming on the clouds with the Saints Harvest Redemption / Gathering Elect from the earth Those who are alive and are left are gathered up Great Multitude arrive in Heaven out of the Great Tribulation Books / Scroll opened with breaking of seventh Seal First Trumpet fire and blood – 1/3rd of earth burned Avenging Angels – supplying Blood and managing the Fire Wrath of God following the Day of the Lord Second Trumpet - 1/3rd of sea to blood Third Trumpet - 1/3rd of water bitter Fourth Trumpet - 1/3rd of light struck Fifth Trumpet Abyss opened 5 months torment Sixth Trumpet WWIII - 1/3rdf of man killed Seventh Trumpet First Bowl - Sores on Man Second Bowl - All sea to blood Third Bowl - All water to blood Fourth Bowl - Seared by heat Fifth Bowl - Satan's kingdom in the dark Sixth Bowl - Way for the King of the East - Battle at Armageddon Two Witnesses die from Demon from Abyss The Great Multitude and the 24 Elders rejoice in Heaven Jesus and His army (144,000 go out to do battle Seventh Bowl – Man of Lawlessness is undone: end with desolations poured out on the Roman desolator Victory at Armageddon anti-Christ and false prophet captured Two Witnesses arise Earth changing earthquake Jews survive the earthquake in Jerusalem End of the one ‘seven’ Beast of a Man thrown into Hell – done away with entirely Atonement of Christ Christ returns to Heaven 30 day period First three beasts allowed to live a while Sojourn to Mount Zion Satan imprisoned Martyrs made alive Rewarding the Saints 45 day period – Encampment Sukkot at Mount Zion Establishment of Millennium reign of Christ Saints rule the earth Satan released at end of Millennium Revolt of the nations / their destruction Great White Throne Judgment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus O'Reillius Posted August 6, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,050 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 632 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/29/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 6, 2016 Last section: The Second Resurrection The second Resurrection of Rev 20 follows a pattern seen five times in the Bible: there are two Resurrections from the grave. The first is only for the “Living” or Righteous and they pass unto Life Eternal. The second is for all, both “Living” and “Dead,” or the Righteous and the Wicked and there is a test for those so gathered together: only the good fish or alternately those in the Book of Life live eternally. The first Resurrection for the Saints has them give an account for themselves. As the “men wondered at” precede the Apostles, the Apostles, most of them martyred, come alive at the end of the one ‘seven,’ and like the rest of the Church must give an account for themselves. At the second Resurrection, however, the Apostles, having proved themselves worthy by faith, judge the twelve tribes of Israel who lived before and during the Millennium. It is these Righteous Jews (and others) who enter Heaven by being in the Book of Life. All those who are not in the Book, are cast into Hell. The if-then test of Revelation 20:15 works both ways as Greek logic would allow. In this way, the parable of the wheat and tares describes the first Resurrection and the parable of fish the second Resurrection. Likewise, in the Olivet Discourse, Jesus leaves off the action after the gathering of the Elect, giving concrete advice in parables, and then takes up the action again in “gap” fashion in Mt 25:31-46 with the Great White Throne Judgment where the Sheep (from the Millennium) and the Goats (from all time) are separated. Like “coming like a thief,” “coming in His glory” does not mark Jesus’ arrival in Mt 25:31 as a specific and unique event. Every time Jesus’ comes, it is with His Glory, so this phrase is descriptive only and cannot be said to only occur with Jesus’ second coming. The final dispensation of the Jews is Life Eternal for those who are faithful and worship Christ. They are included with the Elect gathered at the First Resurrection for Life Eternal with God. As events conclude in Heaven, a New Earth and a New Heaven are created and the former things (this life) will not be remembered. The final list of all the major linear end-time narratives looks like this: War (on Terror) between North and South The rise of the fourth terrible beast of a nation out of the “sea” with ten Kings (Council of Ministers) Little horn "hamstrings" three "Kings" to rise to power over the Beast of a Nation Rebellion occurs Opposition and exaltation Covenant with many prevailed by the Roman ruler who will come Authority given (by God) to the beast of a man for one-half of the one 'seven' He wages war against the Saints We are to endure patiently (remember Rev 3:10 and John 17:15) Temple w/ Gentiles 42 mos. Rise of the false prophet with miracles and 'fire from the sky' The “one” removed from the midst Gog/Magog War - flash flood invasion of Holy Land Armies surround Jerusalem - pitches his tent at the Holy Mountain. Midpoint Abomination - Setting up the talking image of the anti-Christ Those in Judea flee / Remnant protected Two laws which make the Great Tribulation the worst time ever “Mikael" arises Two Witnesses 1260 days - call down Wrath Great Tribulation - the Elect are persecuted Sun/moon/star event Day of the LORD Scrolling of the sky = sign of the Son of Man Jesus touches down on Mount Zion Jews flee through the cleft of the Mount of Olives Mustering the 144,000 on Mount Zion with Jesus standing upon the earth 3 Angels fulfill the Great Commission / Warn the wicked The Last Trumpet Call of God Dead in Christ are Resurrected Son of Man coming on the clouds with the Saints Harvest Redemption / Gathering Elect from the earth Those who are alive and are left are gathered up Great Multitude arrive in Heaven out of the Great Tribulation Books / Scroll opened with breaking of seventh Seal First Trumpet fire and blood – 1/3rd of earth burned Avenging Angels – supplying Blood and managing the Fire Wrath of God following the Day of the Lord Second Trumpet - 1/3rd of sea to blood Third Trumpet - 1/3rd of water bitter Fourth Trumpet - 1/3rd of light struck Fifth Trumpet Abyss opened 5 months torment Sixth Trumpet WWIII - 1/3rdf of man killed Seventh Trumpet First Bowl - Sores on Man Second Bowl - All sea to blood Third Bowl - All water to blood Fourth Bowl - Seared by heat Fifth Bowl - Satan's kingdom in the dark Sixth Bowl - Way for the King of the East - Battle at Armageddon Two Witnesses die from Demon from Abyss The Great Multitude and the 24 Elders rejoice in Heaven Jesus and His army (144,000 go out to do battle Seventh Bowl – Man of Lawlessness is undone: end with desolations poured out on the Roman desolator Victory at Armageddon anti-Christ and false prophet captured Two Witnesses arise Earth changing earthquake Jews survive the earthquake in Jerusalem End of the one ‘seven’ Beast of a Man thrown into Hell – done away with entirely Atonement of Christ Christ returns to Heaven 30 day period First three beasts allowed to live a while Sojourn to Mount Zion Satan imprisoned Martyrs made alive Rewarding the Saints 45 day period – Encampment Sukkot at Mount Zion Establishment of Millennium reign of Christ Saints rule the earth / Israel is at peace Satan released at end of Millennium Revolt of the nations / their destruction Great White Throne Judgment = separation of the Sheep and Goats Death and Hades destroyed New Heaven and New Earth The beauty of the sequence-of-events is that it all fits. God's Word is perfect, and it is in perfect harmony with itself. With our Lord providing the Key passage in the Olivet Discourse, and revealing the end-time order of desolations to John in the book of Revelation, we can make sense of the sometimes jumbled assortment of visions in the Old Testament. Indeed, within this framework, various elements of Old Testament prophecy concerning the Day of the Lord can be worked in so the reader can know the pace and time placement of diverse events. This is my work, and it is the basis for the rest of the book. This opening chapter is not a complete work, nor has every prophetic account of the end been woven in, however, it can stand alone. There is no discrepancy in regards to the sequence of events; in that prophecy is amazingly consistent – which follows in that God remains constant, so finding consistency is not amazing of itself – but that this eschatology, in following the pattern laid out in Scripture does not have any of the fatal criticisms of other eschatologies; and that is amazing indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Thallasa Posted August 6, 2016 Share Posted August 6, 2016 On 22/07/2016 at 11:18 PM, Last Daze said: I'll give it a shot: Tiffany Carol Betty Alice Sally Jane Me too . Good fun . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking the lost Posted August 7, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 496 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 209 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/15/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted August 7, 2016 On 8/5/2016 at 7:28 AM, Marcus O'Reillius said: So who is left behind? One answer as to that would be the wicked. Another is the Jews, who don’t accept Christ as their Savior if they prove as stubborn as they have in the past to the Gospel message. Still another group to be included might be the meek, since they inherit the earth, but then inheritance is a Christian attribute as well. However, one thing is certain: the proud among the wicked will not survive the one desolations God has decreed which do take place in the one ‘seven.’ Very interesting. Just looking at the question, "Who is left behind?", I would say there is only one answer from scripture. The Parable of the Tares Explained 36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.” 37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear! The tares are gathered out first. Tares are identified as the seed sown by the evil one. Is this on a different time line than you are referring to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus O'Reillius Posted August 8, 2016 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 4 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 1,050 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 632 Days Won: 3 Joined: 03/29/2016 Status: Offline Author Share Posted August 8, 2016 6 hours ago, seeking the lost said: The tares are gathered out first. Tares are identified as the seed sown by the evil one. Is this on a different time line than you are referring to? I would implore you to look at the underlying Greek. The two verbs for the tares and the wheat, while rendered as the same "gathered" - are in fact separate and different words. The tares are not gathered, but collected to be burned. Right now I am on vacation with the wife, so I don't have my study resources at hand, nor can I access my papers on my desktop. And I apologize for the brevity in this opening chapter: it does not have word definitions included within it so as to quickly get to the point. A similar dissonance can be concluded in Jesus' further explanation: the tares are eliminated from the Kingdom. 1. In the first case they are burned in the field of this world - on earth. This is the case with the First Resurrection. 2. In the second they are removed from the Kingdom - which includes Heaven and earth, or better yet, the New Earth. This is true with the Second Resurrection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeking the lost Posted August 9, 2016 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 3 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 496 Content Per Day: 0.17 Reputation: 209 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/15/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted August 9, 2016 On 8/7/2016 at 9:28 PM, Marcus O'Reillius said: I would implore you to look at the underlying Greek. The two verbs for the tares and the wheat, while rendered as the same "gathered" - are in fact separate and different words. The tares are not gathered, but collected to be burned. Right now I am on vacation with the wife, so I don't have my study resources at hand, nor can I access my papers on my desktop. And I apologize for the brevity in this opening chapter: it does not have word definitions included within it so as to quickly get to the point. A similar dissonance can be concluded in Jesus' further explanation: the tares are eliminated from the Kingdom. 1. In the first case they are burned in the field of this world - on earth. This is the case with the First Resurrection. 2. In the second they are removed from the Kingdom - which includes Heaven and earth, or better yet, the New Earth. This is true with the Second Resurrection. Thanks. Enjoy your vacation. Would it be appropriate to say that nothing happens to the wheat until the tares are burnt up? If this happens first that the tares are burned then the wheat is gathered could the theory of the wheat being taken up and then the tares are dealt with be out of sequence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted August 9, 2016 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted August 9, 2016 36 minutes ago, seeking the lost said: If this happens first that the tares are burned then the wheat is gathered could the theory of the wheat being taken up and then the tares are dealt with be out of sequence? It is not a good idea to put too fine a point on parables. Rather, the rest of Scripture should be primarily taken into account. Thus we see that the wheat is already in Heaven (Rev 7) before the tares are harvested (Rev 14). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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