saved before birth.........Mary

[wincam]

so what is the problem - just with Mary - when in fact we are all saved before we are born - all that is required is that we accept, hold on and not reject or deny our free gift - that Mary fulfilled all these requirements is beyond question or doubt - wincam

[ayin jade]

3 hours ago, wincam said:

so what is the problem - just with Mary - when in fact we are all saved before we are born - all that is required is that we accept, hold on and not reject or deny our free gift - that Mary fulfilled all these requirements is beyond question or doubt - wincam

Where is scripture that we were all saved before we were born?

 

[LadyKay]

What does this have to do with Mary?

 

[woundeddog]

we are covered by the blood while we are unaware of sin-- but we are only safe-- not saved--- safe until we knowingly sin-- then we will need to be saved---- but infants and individuals with out understanding are safe because of Jesus blood--

[Guest Robert]

12 hours ago, wincam said:

so what is the problem - just with Mary - when in fact we are all saved before we are born - all that is required is that we accept, hold on and not reject or deny our free gift - that Mary fulfilled all these requirements is beyond question or doubt - wincam

That directly contradicts Scripture, Wincam:

"But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus." (Romans 3:21-26, NASB, emphasis mine)

Scripture never says that Mary fulfilled any "requirements"; which puts your claim well within question and doubt. We do not make doctrine on what Scripture does not say. Scripture does not support Universalism (the belief that all are saved). THAT is the "problem".

 

I don't know where you are getting your "doctrine", but it certainly isn't from the Word of God.

 

Edited August 15, 2016 by RobertS

[wincam]

4 hours ago, RobertS said:

That directly contradicts Scripture, Wincam:

"But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus." (Romans 3:21-26, NASB, emphasis mine)

Scripture never says that Mary fulfilled any "requirements"; which puts your claim well within question and doubt. We do not make doctrine on what Scripture does not say. Scripture does not support Universalism (the belief that all are saved). THAT is the "problem".

 

I don't know where you are getting your "doctrine", but it certainly isn't from the Word of God.

 

it most certainly is but only for those with eyes to see and ears to hear it seems - so don't blame me if you just cannot see or hear - btw Jesus is the saviour of all mankind is what scripture says and so He is - wincam

[Guest Robert]

On 8/15/2016 at 7:53 AM, wincam said:

it most certainly is but only for those with eyes to see and ears to hear it seems - so don't blame me if you just cannot see or hear - btw Jesus is the saviour of all mankind is what scripture says and so He is - wincam

No, it isn't: if it were, you would have posted the verses by now, and you haven't.  As for "eyes to see and ears to hear": I've presented Scripture to refute your claims. All you have presented is off-handed remarks, personal opinion and not one shred of Scriptural evidence to back your point.

Scripture says clearly what the terms are for being saved in Romans 10:

"But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. For the Scripture says, “WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for “WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.” (Romans 10:8-13, NASB, emphasis mine)

Scripture also says:

"The Lord does not delay the promise, as some esteem slowness, but is patient toward you, not willing for any to perish, but all to come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9, NASB, emphasis mine)

"...not willing for any to perish, but all to come to repentance"; it doesn't say "He has saved everyone". What you are claiming is not scriptural, as it removes personal responsibility from individuals for the sins they commit and the need for repentance, so clearly outlines in all the epistles, Gospels, and even the Old Testament. Without that, repentance and grace mean nothing, and God has no opinion on sin, evil and judgment, which would make Him amoral and unsuited to judge.

And that is NOT the God of the Bible, Jesus Christ, or the Holy Spirit.
 

BTW: Scripture never says Jesus is  the savior of all mankind; John 3:16 says God so loved the world that He sent His only begotten son, not that God SAVED the whole world. 

Edited August 19, 2016 by RobertS

[wincam]

48 minutes ago, RobertS said:

No, it isn't: if it were, you would have posted the verses by now, and you haven't.  As for "eyes to see and ears to hear": I've presented Scripture to refute your claims. All you ahve presented ins off-handed remarks, personal opinion and not one shred of Scriptural evidence to back your point.

Scripture says clearly what the terms are for being saved in Romans 10:

"But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. For the Scripture says, “WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; for “WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.” (Romans 10:8-13, NASB, emphasis mine)

Scripture also says:

"The Lord does not delay the promise, as some esteem slowness, but is patient toward you, not willing for any to perish, but all to come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9, NASB, emphasis mine)

"...not willing for any to perish, but all to come to repentance"; it doesn't say "He has saved everyone". What you are claiming is not scriptural, as it removes personal responsibility from individuals for the sins they commit and the need for repentance, so clearly outlines in all the epistles, Gospels, and even the Old Testament. Without that, repentance and grace mean nothing, and God has no opinion on sin, evil and judgment, which would make Him amoral and unsuited to judge.

And that is NOT the God of the Bible, Jesus Christ, or the Holy Spirit.
 

BTW: Scripture never says Jesus is  the savior of all mankind; John 3:16 says God so loved the world that He sent His only begotten son, not that God SAVED the whole world. 

 

it is in the bible but only for those with eyes to see and ears to hear viz "by one woman sin entered the world and by one woman our saviour entered the world" - wincam

[LadyKay]

Maybe Wincam is reading a different Bible then the rest of us.

[ayin jade]

7 hours ago, wincam said:

 

it is in the bible but only for those with eyes to see and ears to hear viz "by one woman sin entered the world and by one woman our saviour entered the world" - wincam

You are misquoting.

Romans 5:11 And not only so , but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the reconciliation.
12 Therefore, even as through one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed on all men inasmuch as all sinned:

It never says in the bible by one woman sin entered the world. In fact your quote is nowhere found. I googled. I couldnt find the citation for that quote.