Is Salvation Conditional??

[woundeddog]

1 hour ago, Yowm said:

, then don't you think God will take His child home 'early'?

Paul talks about a sin unto death and I think that's physical death not spiritual- so I do believe that the Lord will take unruly children home early-- yes I agree

[Guest Robert]

6 hours ago, RustyAngeL said:

Yes there is a scripture that says God's Spirit will not always strive with man.

Yes, I believe that's in Genesis chapter 6.

[Guest shiloh357]

On 8/29/2016 at 7:24 PM, RustyAngeL said:

I think they were saved. The scripture is pretty clear.  Hebrews 6:4-6  It speaks about those who have "fallen away". It speaks about them falling away and making it impossible for them to return. It's very sad but it's true.  

Blessings, RustyAngeL

That passage is part of a larger discussion that starts back up in Heb. 5:12 where the writer of Hebrews is talking about the fact that the audience is spiritually immature and stagnate in their spiritual lives.  That line of thought continues through Hebrews 6.  There is no complaint that they are apostate in that passage.   The word in the Greek for falling away is not the word used for apostasy, but is a word that is used to describe the way an athlete falls to the side of the road in a race because he lacks the stamina to keep running due to a lack of training and preparation.    Hebrew 6:1 is an exhortation to move on from the elementary things they should already know and move on up to deeper more mature doctrinal knowledge and principles.  

When the writer of Hebrews says that it is impossible to renew them to repentance, it is saying that they cannot be re-saved, but that's in the context of spiritual immaturity.  In other words, we can't keep going back and starting over.  Otherwise Jesus would have to come back and be re-crucified.   We are saved and we need to move on past the "beginner" stage in our walk with Christ.   We cannot keep going back over and over again.

This is why understanding the context and the line of thought is so important in a text.   Hebrews 6:4-6 has always been presented without the benefit of the greater immediate context which has nothing to do with apostasy.  If we can sin so much as as to lose salvation and then make it impossible to be re-saved, it makes man more powerful than God.  It means that our sin is ultimately more powerful than the work of Jesus on the cross.

[Guest Robert]

1 hour ago, shiloh357 said:

That passage is part of a larger discussion that starts back up in Heb. 5:12 where the writer of Hebrews is talking about the fact that the audience is spiritually immature and stagnate in their spiritual lives.  That line of thought continues through Hebrews 6.  There is no complaint that they are apostate in that passage.   The word in the Greek for falling away is the word used for apostasy, but is a word that is used to describe the way an athlete falls to the side of the road in a race because he lacks the stamina to keep running due to a lack of training and preparation.    Hebrew 6:1 is an exhortation to move on from the elementary things they should already know and move on up to deeper more mature doctrinal knowledge and principles.  

When the writer of Hebrews says that it is impossible to renew them to repentance, it is saying that they cannot be re-saved, but that's in the context of spiritual immaturity.  In other words, we can't keep going back and starting over.  Otherwise Jesus would have to come back and be re-crucified.   We are saved and we need to move on past the "beginner" stage in our walk with Christ.   We cannot keep going back over and over again.

This is why understanding the context and the line of thought is so important in a text.   Hebrews 6:4-6 has always been presented without the benefit of the greater immediate context which has nothing to do with apostasy.  If we can sin so much as as to lose salvation and then make it impossible to be re-saved, it makes man more powerful than God.  It means that our sin is ultimately more powerful than the work of Jesus on the cross.

Thanks for that exposition Shiloh; I bookmarked it for future reference.

[enoob57]

On ‎8‎/‎29‎/‎2016 at 6:19 PM, Willa said:

The person who does not remain to the end probably did not truly belong to God in the first place.  It is God Who is faithful.  Not us.  While I was backslidden I can remember asking God not to let me fall aware too far.  He didn't.  And when I was restored I surrendered 100%.  There is nothing more miserable than a backslidden Christian, a prodigal eating pig slop and remembering the feasts at the Father's table.  Don't ever want to go there again.

I dined as you have Willa ... I know Your resolve! Then is simply nothing to go back to...  

[enoob57]

6 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

That passage is part of a larger discussion that starts back up in Heb. 5:12 where the writer of Hebrews is talking about the fact that the audience is spiritually immature and stagnate in their spiritual lives.  That line of thought continues through Hebrews 6.  There is no complaint that they are apostate in that passage.   The word in the Greek for falling away is not the word used for apostasy, but is a word that is used to describe the way an athlete falls to the side of the road in a race because he lacks the stamina to keep running due to a lack of training and preparation.    Hebrew 6:1 is an exhortation to move on from the elementary things they should already know and move on up to deeper more mature doctrinal knowledge and principles.  

When the writer of Hebrews says that it is impossible to renew them to repentance, it is saying that they cannot be re-saved, but that's in the context of spiritual immaturity.  In other words, we can't keep going back and starting over.  Otherwise Jesus would have to come back and be re-crucified.   We are saved and we need to move on past the "beginner" stage in our walk with Christ.   We cannot keep going back over and over again.

This is why understanding the context and the line of thought is so important in a text.   Hebrews 6:4-6 has always been presented without the benefit of the greater immediate context which has nothing to do with apostasy.  If we can sin so much as as to lose salvation and then make it impossible to be re-saved, it makes man more powerful than God.  It means that our sin is ultimately more powerful than the work of Jesus on the cross.

I believe the context your addressing is also demanding the overall aspect of letter context being persecution an the desire to return to the Law... if that is the overall parameter then what the writer of Hebrews has done (because of their immaturity) is set the notion to be absurd as the law was never meant to save anyone and Christ is the only way to be saved... for the assurance lies in fact Christ work is complete to the saving of souls that come to Him and no one can change that - nothing created that is! Who can hang God upon the cross again? 

[woundeddog]

7 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

This is why understanding the context and the line of thought is so important in a text.   Hebrews 6:4-6 has always been presented without the benefit of the greater immediate context which has nothing to do with apostasy.  If we can sin so much as as to lose salvation and then make it impossible to be re-saved, it makes man more powerful than God.  It means that our sin is ultimately more powerful than the work of Jesus on the cross.

Amen-- well said

[woundeddog]

another way to look at this is that we are separated from God by an infinite sin debt- Jesus blood paid the debt- the whole debt-- not one little debt at a time but the whole debt at once