Is the Falling Away a false teaching ?

[Marcus O'Reillius]

9 minutes ago, douggg said:

The King of the North is not the Antichrist person.    

I disagree.  The anti-Christ will be the King of the North.

[douggg]

15 minutes ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

Messiah means "Anointed".
Christ means "Anointed".

"While māshȋah may designate an office such as the high priest (Lev 4:3), māshȋah is almost exclusively reserved as a synonym for "king" (melek, q.v.) as in poetry where it is in parallel position with king (I Sam 2:10; II Sam 22:51; cf. Ps 2:2; 18:50 [H 51]; but cf. Ps 28:8 where "people" is a counterpart term)... Certainly a title of honor, the expressions also emphasize the special relationship between God and the anointed."  Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament, p.531

Yes, but "the" messiah is the one special anointed.... who is the promised King of Israel, descended from David.    The disciples were all hopeful that Jesus was that king.     When John the Baptist was in prison, he became doubtful that Jesus was really the expected messiah - to be the King of israel - because Jesus was going around healing people and not gathering together an army to overthrow the Romans.    So John the Baptist has a message sent to Jesus - are you really the one or should we expect another.    Jesus confirmed that he was the one.    

Since it is known that the Antichrist will become the King of Israel - the messiah - in the eyes of the Jews (Judaism), it is important to know what they expect because the person is going to seem to fulfill their expectations.     Which fit the little horn - a great politician.    Someone who fights the battles of God in defending Israel - another expectation - which it will appear the little horn will do as he assembles his army in Greece as a deterent to keep Gog/Magog from invading Israel.        Another expectation that he renews the Mt. Sinai covenant (their view of the "new" covenant of Jeremiah 31) - which will happen when he oversees the reading of the law of Moses (another name for the Mt. Sinai covenant) for the 7 year cycle stated in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.     Which begins the 70th week.

 

 

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

1 minute ago, douggg said:

Since it is known that the Antichrist will become the King of Israel

No, it's not "known", so please provide chapter and verse saying the anti-Christ will be the King of Israel.

The beast-of-a-man comes from the "sea" which physically points to the Mediterranean, but also, according to the Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament can refer to Europe as a "sea" of peoples, and that source just happens to be the people who tore down the city and the Sanctuary in A.D. 70, and from whom the "ruler" will come.

[Guest Robert]

4 minutes ago, douggg said:

Yes, but "the" messiah is the one special anointed.... who is the promised King of Israel, descended from David.    The disciples were all hopeful that Jesus was that king.     When John the Baptist was in prison, he became doubtful that Jesus was really the expected messiah - to be the King of israel - because Jesus was going around healing people and not gathering together an army to overthrow the Romans.    So John the Baptist has a message sent to Jesus - are you really the one or should we expect another.    Jesus confirmed that he was the one.    

Since it is known that the Antichrist will become the King of Israel - the messiah - in the eyes of the Jews (Judaism), it is important to know what they expect because the person is going to seem to fulfill their expectations.     Which fit the little horn - a great politician.    Someone who fights the battles of God in defending Israel - another expectation - which it will appear the little horn will do as he assembles his army in Greece as a deterent to keep Gog/Magog from invading Israel.        Another expectation that he renews the Mt. Sinai covenant (their view of the "new" covenant of Jeremiah 31) - which will happen when he oversees the reading of the law of Moses (another name for the Mt. Sinai covenant) for the 7 year cycle stated in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.     Which begins the 70th week.

Yeah; you're going to have to provide more than "it is known" to document where you're getting the "Antichrist will become the king of Israel" thing from, Douggg. Also, assembling his armies in Greece? Must have missed that one in Scripture. Could you do us the kind favor of posting chapter and verse where all of this is in the Bible?

[douggg]

3 minutes ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

I disagree.  The anti-Christ will be the King of the North.

What you are missing Marcus, in the overall endtimes picture is that the person who becomes the Antichrist - the King of Israel - is only in that role for about 3 years 3 months, before getting rejected by the Jews as continuing to their king.      For the rest of the 70th week he is not the King of israel - the bible calls him the revealed man of sin, then the beast.      He is not the Antichrist during that time !     No longer the King of Israel.

Having said that, the person as the Antichrist is not found in Daniel 11.     In Daniel 11, he is found in the end times parts as the willful king in Daniel 11:36, who thinks he is God - and has no regard of his fathers (he is a Jew, who has rebelled against God at that point) - he is the beast in verse 36, no longer the Antichrist, king of Israel.

On top of that, he is not the king of the North, but the king of the West, because the EU is where he originates and has all of the military power of the West behind him.        Near the end of the 70th week, he will be attacked by the king of the south, all of the African nations.   And when the northern king, Russia and allies, sees him being attacked, reacts by attacking him from the north.      Then kings of the east head to middle east to attack him from that direction.     And the beast,

with the power of the military of the west - in spite of getting attacked from three directions - will be winning because in Daniel 8, it says he can't be broken by human hand.     But Jesus is going to break him.

 

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

5 minutes ago, douggg said:

the person who becomes the Antichrist - the King of Israel

The only thing missing is your Scriptural support in end-time prophecy that the anti-Christ will be the King of Israel.

[douggg]

47 minutes ago, RobertS said:

Yeah; you're going to have to provide more than "it is known" to document where you're getting the "Antichrist will become the king of Israel" thing from, Douggg. Also, assembling his armies in Greece? Must have missed that one in Scripture. Could you do us the kind favor of posting chapter and verse where all of this is in the Bible?

This is what I have been telling you about Daniel 8, the little horn waxing strong from the geographic location once one of the four break up kingdoms.

8:9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

Following Gog/Magog, he moves into the middle east to gobble up all the oil rich territories all around Israel, in the wake of the muslims destruction, and occupies them with his army.      You can see why the Europeans will love the guy, plus there is so much anti-islam sentiment building up in europe right now by the native populations, that it is going to be politically popular.   

Moving his army in the middle east following Gog/Magog will be under the pretense of keeping peace.      Confirming the covenant for 7 year is not a peace pact, but his arrival will be on the pretense of peace.       The Jews will see him, in the wake of Gog/Magog, as being their messiah,  and the false prophet will anoint him the King of Israel.     Just as Samuel the prophet anointed both Saul and David.

 

 

Edited October 10, 2016 by douggg

[Marcus O'Reillius]

9 minutes ago, douggg said:

This is what I have been telling you about Daniel 8, the little horn waxing strong from the geographic location once one of the four break up kingdoms.

8:9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

That was Antiochus IV Epiphanes in the second century B.C.

[douggg]

25 minutes ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

No, it's not "known", so please provide chapter and verse saying the anti-Christ will be the King of Israel.

The beast-of-a-man comes from the "sea" which physically points to the Mediterranean, but also, according to the Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament can refer to Europe as a "sea" of peoples, and that source just happens to be the people who tore down the city and the Sanctuary in A.D. 70, and from whom the "ruler" will come.

It is and was known - not because there is a specific verse in the bible as "the Anti-Christ will be the King of Israel" but because it was common knowledge back then of what "the" messiah meant - the promised great King of Israel, descended from David.    The prefix "Anti" was understood by everyone.    John said in 1John2:18... of what was common knowledge back then..... 18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

 

 

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Just now, douggg said:

It is and was known - not because there is a specific verse in the bible as "the Anti-Christ will be the King of Israel" but because it was common knowledge back then of what "the" messiah meant - the promised great King of Israel, descended from David.    The prefix "Anti" was understood by everyone.    John said in 1John2:18... of what was common knowledge back then..... 18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

Aaaah - NO.

That verse does NOT establish the anti-Christ as the King of Israel.

He is the "ruler" who will come, so he is a king - but verse does not make it known.

This is the first I've ever heard of such a proposition.