Uncovering the problem of forced marriage in the U.S.

[GoldenEagle]

9 minutes ago, Out of the Shadows said:

David and Solomon both had multiple concubines and neither were punished by God for it.  I agree that neither are a "sin" but I do not think they are things we should get back into, just as I do not think arranged marriages, slavery or 13 year olds getting married should be either.  

I'm not sure about David…  although from memory I don't think things ended well for him either in his life. But wasn't Solomon turned away from God because of his wives? This was the wisest king world has ever known…

 Some people have a stop strong  start to their lives but end up with a week finish.

1 Kings 11:4-6

 4 As Solomon grew old, his wives turned his heart after other gods, and his heart was not fully devoted to the Lordhis God, as the heart of David his father had been. 5 He followed Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians, and Molek the detestable god of the Ammonites. 6 So Solomon did evil in the eyes of the Lord; he did not follow the Lord completely, as David his father had done.

God bless,

GE 

[Running Gator]

41 minutes ago, GoldenEagle said:

I'm not sure about David…  although from memory I don't think things ended well for him either in his life. But wasn't Solomon turned away from God because of his wives? This was the wisest king world has ever known…

 Some people have a stop strong  start to their lives but end up with a week finish.

1 Kings 11:4-6

 4 As Solomon grew old, his wives turned his heart after other gods, and his heart was not fully devoted to the Lordhis God, as the heart of David his father had been. 5 He followed Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians, and Molek the detestable god of the Ammonites. 6 So Solomon did evil in the eyes of the Lord; he did not follow the Lord completely, as David his father had done.

God bless,

GE 

Very true such things did not alway turn out good, but they were the norm, which is all that we are talking about here. 

[Running Gator]

1 minute ago, Butero said:

I have no problem with either if Biblical guidelines are followed.  Many believe the virgin Mary was no older than 13 when she married Joseph. 

I didn't suspect you would have any issue with either

[nebula]

3 hours ago, GoldenEagle said:

 

@nebula what do you make of the video article? It's interesting that the first woman is from Michigan. The 2nd was from New York...

God bless,
GE

It breaks my heart.

I know what it is like to live under that kind of control.

And it breaks my heart that there are those who are unmerciful to their plight.

[Ezra]

6 hours ago, GoldenEagle said:

Ezra according to which passages of Scripture are arranged marriages acceptable? Are you talking about Genesis 24?

We could start with Genesis 2:21,22 and go from there. Genesis 24 is a good example, and you will find that throughout the Old Testament there were arranged marriages and restrictions on who was to marry whom. Even the marriage of Mary and Joseph would have been an arranged marriage by God.

In the majority of older cultures worldwide, and even among the European aristocracy until recently, arranged marriages were the norm.

Using the term "forced" marriage is pejorative.  While there would be instances of forced marriage, that is not the same as arranged marriage.  You could say that Laban tricking Jacob into marrying Leah was a "forced" marriage, but that term has a rather ugly connotation.

[Guest shiloh357]

In the ancient Jewish culture (and I speaking to the culture in a general sense) arranged marriages were the norm.  But they were in no way forced marriages.  

Romance was not the basis for marriage.   Often a marriage was arranged when the prospective bride and groom were infants.  But this was often on the basis two families that had a shared interest in being joined together.   It was the same reason that some families would enter into blood covenants together.   If one family had a skill and a product but no way to profit from it, and another family had business savvy but no product, they would join families and make a lot of money in the joint enterprise.

So a marriage would be arranged when the two children were young, but  both would be groomed for each other as they got older.  They might even meet each other few times over the years.  They were raised with the skills and understanding/training they needed to be a husband and a wife.  And they were prepared for marriage when the time came.

They got married at earlier ages than we do, but their life span was shorter, too.  They often got married at the point when it was generally safe for a girl to bear children (14-16 years of age).   Boys were men by that time, as well.   At 14 a young man was already working in his father's trade.     Back then a 14 year old boy was far, far more mature and responsible than a 14 year old boy in our day and age.   Same goes for the girls. 

Love was learned, in one sense.   You learned to love the person you were married to.   They often did not "fall in love" the way we think of it.   They understood that they would grow to love the person they were with.  They didn't go into marriage with pie-in-the-sky fantasies about what it would be like. 

Just like every culture you had bad apples and those that didn't do things like I described, but arranged marriages worked when they were done correctly.  They were not "forced." No one was threatened, or coerced.  Premarital sex were less likely because they were married so young. 

I don't think arranged marriages would work in our culture, but it wouldn't be such a bad idea to at least groom kids for marriage.  At least raise them with the skills they need to be happily married.    Our culture feeds kids the wrong ideas about what love is.   The pop music culture blurs the line between love and infatuation/lust.    Love and sex are the same thing in the pop music and entertainment industry.   Little boys' minds are being conditioned to think like predators while girls are treated as something to be conquered.   

In our culture, love is centered on, "I want you, I need you, I can't live without you."   That is selfishness.  Real love is the opposite.  It only wants what makes for your highest good.  Love is a servant.  Love is always doing for someone else, even to its own hurt.    Love sacrifices.  Love never controls, manipulates, or shames anyone into anything.

 

[nebula]

2 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

... but  both would be groomed for each other as they got older.  They might even meet each other few times over the years.  They were raised with the skills and understanding/training they needed to be a husband and a wife.  And they were prepared for marriage when the time came.

This was a significant aspect that was obviously lacking in these cases. 

[nebula]

4 hours ago, Butero said:

 I absolutely despise the liberalism that is entering into the church world.  I find the anti-legalism movement to be nothing more than lawless people teaching rebellion.  What exactly is this plight?  Someone attended a church that required they have a particular hair style, couldn't wear make-up or jewelry and had to dress feminine if they were a woman and masculine if they were a man.  The horror of it!  How in the world does anyone handle the stress? 

You didn't seem tolerate the encouragement/suggestion that it would be wise for Christians to not watch movies full of immorality (i.e. nudity and sex scenes) very well. How is filling your vision and memory with such things not "liberalism creeping into the church"?

[Running Gator]

I believe that those of you who think a girl could just walk away from an arranged marriage are being very naive, be it today or in biblical times.  

[Running Gator]

5 hours ago, Butero said:

I think it is sad people feel the need to force their opinions on churches they aren't even part of.  I could just as easily take the view that my mission in life is to go into every church that is liberal and force legalism on them, but I don't do that.  Not everybody wants to be part of the anti-legalism crowd.  I find it fascinating how some think that everyone desires the same thing they do. 

We had this member sometime back who thought the Amish were terrible because they were so legalistic and wanted to help people get free from the bondage.  It was beyond him to think that they might actually like living as they do and be happy.  I see the same thing here.  I absolutely despise the liberalism that is entering into the church world.  I find the anti-legalism movement to be nothing more than lawless people teaching rebellion.  What exactly is this plight?  Someone attended a church that required they have a particular hair style, couldn't wear make-up or jewelry and had to dress feminine if they were a woman and masculine if they were a man.  The horror of it!  How in the world does anyone handle the stress? 

Is this about arranged marriages or forced marriages?  I think everyone would agree forced marriages are wrong, but there are some traditions I would support that are forced marriages.  I support a return to shotgun weddings when someone becomes pregnant out of wedlock.  Make the Father be responsible, not just financially, but to be a family and raise his own kids.  I think a lot of the old ways are better.  I also know there are a lot of people that choose who they wish to marry and wind up abused or unhappy in that marriage.  In other cases, those in arranged marriages or that get married because of a pregnancy are content and learn to love their spouse.  I just see a lot of one size fits all nonsense in this kind of thread. 

I know for a fact I would not be happy in the kind of church G.E. or Nebula would.  They would hate the kind of church I would fit in with.  How about we all just accept the fact we are different and be happy where we are and leave others in the church world alone. 

Amazing how you were able to turn a discussion about arranged marriages into a rant against anti-legalism