The Millennium

[GoodFruit]

I'm curious to know if there any here on Worthy that are Amillennial and do not believe in a literal 1,000 yr. reign of Christ?  I was raised as a Lutheran and I never really understood why this denomination seems to completely avoid the book of Revelation and I never remember ever hearing the pastor preach on the end times.  It never really dawned on me until recently to find out why.  So I decided to check the doctrine of the Lutheran church (Missouri Synod) and I was shocked to learn that they don't believe in the Millennium.  I personally do not follow this belief from my own studies and understanding of eschatology over the past 15 yrs.  

If anyone else is Amillennial, I certainly would like to hear your argument in support of it because I don't get it.  Thank you.

 

Here is the LCMS doctrine:

Of the Millennium

42. With the Augsburg Confession (Art. XVII) we reject every type of millennialism, or Chiliasm,

the opinions that Christ will return visibly to this earth a thousand years before the end of the

world and establish a dominion of the Church over the world; or that before the end of the

world the Church is to enjoy a season of special prosperity; or that before a general

resurrection on Judgment Day a number of departed Christians or martyrs are to be raised

again to reign in glory in this world; or that before the end of the world a universal conversion

of the Jewish nation (of Israel according to the flesh) will take place.

Over against this, Scripture clearly teaches, and we teach accordingly, that the kingdom of

Christ on earth will remain under the cross until the end of the world, Act 14:22; John 16:33;

18:36; Luke 9:23; 14:27; 17:20‐37; 2 Tim. 4:18; Heb. 12:28; Luke 18:8; that the second visible

coming of the Lord will be His final advent, His coming to judge the quick and the dead, Matt.

24:29, 30; 25:31; 2 Tim. 4:1; 2 Thess. 2:8; Heb. 9:26‐28; that there will be but one resurrection

of the dead, John 5:28; 6:39, 40; that the time of the Last Day is, and will remain, unknown,

Matt. 24:42; 25:13; Mark 13:32, 37; Acts 1:7, which would not be the case if the Last Day were

to come a thousand years after the beginning of a millennium; and that there will be no

general conversion, a conversion en masse, of the Jewish nation, Rom. 11:7; 2 Cor. 3:14; Rom.

11:25; 1 Thess. 2:16.

According to these clear passages of Scripture we reject the whole of Millennialism, since it

not only contradicts Scripture, but also engenders a false conception of the kingdom of Christ,

turns the hope of Christians upon earthly goals, 1 Cor. 15:19; Col. 3:2, and leads them to look

upon the Bible as an obscure book.

 

[missmuffet]

1 hour ago, GoodFruit said:

I'm curious to know if there any here on Worthy that are Amillennial and do not believe in a literal 1,000 yr. reign of Christ?  I was raised as a Lutheran and I never really understood why this denomination seems to completely avoid the book of Revelation and I never remember ever hearing the pastor preach on the end times.  It never really dawned on me until recently to find out why.  So I decided to check the doctrine of the Lutheran church (Missouri Synod) and I was shocked to learn that they don't believe in the Millennium.  I personally do not follow this belief from my own studies and understanding of eschatology over the past 15 yrs.  

If anyone else is Amillennial, I certainly would like to hear your argument in support of it because I don't get it.  Thank you.

 

Here is the LCMS doctrine:

Of the Millennium

42. With the Augsburg Confession (Art. XVII) we reject every type of millennialism, or Chiliasm,

the opinions that Christ will return visibly to this earth a thousand years before the end of the

world and establish a dominion of the Church over the world; or that before the end of the

world the Church is to enjoy a season of special prosperity; or that before a general

resurrection on Judgment Day a number of departed Christians or martyrs are to be raised

again to reign in glory in this world; or that before the end of the world a universal conversion

of the Jewish nation (of Israel according to the flesh) will take place.

Over against this, Scripture clearly teaches, and we teach accordingly, that the kingdom of

Christ on earth will remain under the cross until the end of the world, Act 14:22; John 16:33;

18:36; Luke 9:23; 14:27; 17:20‐37; 2 Tim. 4:18; Heb. 12:28; Luke 18:8; that the second visible

coming of the Lord will be His final advent, His coming to judge the quick and the dead, Matt.

24:29, 30; 25:31; 2 Tim. 4:1; 2 Thess. 2:8; Heb. 9:26‐28; that there will be but one resurrection

of the dead, John 5:28; 6:39, 40; that the time of the Last Day is, and will remain, unknown,

Matt. 24:42; 25:13; Mark 13:32, 37; Acts 1:7, which would not be the case if the Last Day were

to come a thousand years after the beginning of a millennium; and that there will be no

general conversion, a conversion en masse, of the Jewish nation, Rom. 11:7; 2 Cor. 3:14; Rom.

11:25; 1 Thess. 2:16.

According to these clear passages of Scripture we reject the whole of Millennialism, since it

not only contradicts Scripture, but also engenders a false conception of the kingdom of Christ,

turns the hope of Christians upon earthly goals, 1 Cor. 15:19; Col. 3:2, and leads them to look

upon the Bible as an obscure book.

 

I was a member of the Missouri synod Lutheran Church for 25 years. They believe much like the Catholic Religion that there is not a literal 1000 year millennium. I had even talked to a Pastor about it once and he got very mad at me even bring it up. I left the Lutheran Church. I did not grow as a Christian in the Church. I believe there are several on Worthy who are amillennial.

[Ezra]

4 hours ago, GoodFruit said:

I was raised as a Lutheran and I never really understood why this denomination seems to completely avoid the book of Revelation and I never remember ever hearing the pastor preach on the end times. 

Lutherans came out of the Catholic Church, and Martin Luther's primary focus was on the Gospel, and justification by grace through faith. The Reformers did not question or challenge the eschatology which began with Augustine, who believed that he was already in the Millennium. Many of the Reformed Churches are Amillennial for this reason. 

What people need to ask themselves is "If there is no literal Millennium, then why is it mentioned six times within seven verses in Revelation 20?" The Greek term is chilia ete (which has given rise to the term Chiliaism), and that means "a thousand years".

1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

The binding and loosing of Satan is the key to understanding the Millennium. Peter said that Satan walks about as a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. There has not been a single period in history thus far that Satan has not been active on this earth (along with his evil spirits).  Therefore it is impossible that the Millennium has ever occurred, since that would be a period of perfect peace and righteousness on this earth.  This is only possible after the Second Coming of Christ. Therefore the Amillennialists believe in a fantasy.

[missmuffet]

46 minutes ago, Ezra said:

Lutherans came out of the Catholic Church, and Martin Luther's primary focus was on the Gospel, and justification by grace through faith. The Reformers did not question or challenge the eschatology which began with Augustine, who believed that he was already in the Millennium. Many of the Reformed Churches are Amillennial for this reason. 

What people need to ask themselves is "If there is no literal Millennium, then why is it mentioned six times within seven verses in Revelation 20?" The Greek term is chilia ete (which has given rise to the term Chiliaism), and that means "a thousand years".

1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

The binding and loosing of Satan is the key to understanding the Millennium. Peter said that Satan walks about as a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. There has not been a single period in history thus far that Satan has not been active on this earth (along with his evil spirits).  Therefore it is impossible that the Millennium has ever occurred, since that would be a period of perfect peace and righteousness on this earth.  This is only possible after the Second Coming of Christ. Therefore the Amillennialists believe in a fantasy.

They spiritualize the verses in Revelation. They give it their own meaning. The Lutheran Church service is a lot like a Catholic service.

[GoodFruit]

21 hours ago, missmuffet said:

I was a member of the Missouri synod Lutheran Church for 25 years. They believe much like the Catholic Religion that there is not a literal 1000 year millennium. I had even talked to a Pastor about it once and he got very mad at me even bring it up. I left the Lutheran Church. I did not grow as a Christian in the Church. I believe there are several on Worthy who are amillennial.

And this is the very reason I asked the question here.  I know that talking to a Lutheran pastor is like hitting a brick wall.  I tried once a long time ago, but he talked in circles and gave me a book to read...which I never did.  He never got mad at me though. 

 

 

[GoodFruit]

17 hours ago, missmuffet said:

They spiritualize the verses in Revelation. They give it their own meaning. The Lutheran Church service is a lot like a Catholic service.

 

18 hours ago, Ezra said:

Lutherans came out of the Catholic Church, and Martin Luther's primary focus was on the Gospel, and justification by grace through faith. The Reformers did not question or challenge the eschatology which began with Augustine, who believed that he was already in the Millennium. Many of the Reformed Churches are Amillennial for this reason. 

What people need to ask themselves is "If there is no literal Millennium, then why is it mentioned six times within seven verses in Revelation 20?" The Greek term is chilia ete (which has given rise to the term Chiliaism), and that means "a thousand years".

1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

The binding and loosing of Satan is the key to understanding the Millennium. Peter said that Satan walks about as a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour. There has not been a single period in history thus far that Satan has not been active on this earth (along with his evil spirits).  Therefore it is impossible that the Millennium has ever occurred, since that would be a period of perfect peace and righteousness on this earth.  This is only possible after the Second Coming of Christ. Therefore the Amillennialists believe in a fantasy.

Hi Ezra, I am well aware of the history of the Lutheran church.  They remind us every October 31st with a special service to celebrate the Reformation.  I've been attending those since I was born....a half a century ago.  Once I got out parochial grade school, I put my Luther's small catechism on a shelf and haven't looked at it in the last 40 years.  I really never questioned it after that and I didn't follow Christ in my early adult life so it didn't matter to me at that time.  It just recently crossed my mind that I don't even know what the LC's official stance on the end times is and that is when I decided to look into it. 

There are so many things that they don't have an explanation for and I don't understand why more people of that denomination don't even question it.  I wouldn't have myself if I hadn't sought Christ on my own did my own eschatology studies.  Very sad so many people haven't got a clue.

[GoodFruit]

Oh it gets better!  Read what the Lutheran church believes about the Antichrist.  Seriously?!  This is just crazy thinking!!

 

Of the Antichrist

43. As to the Antichrist we teach that the prophecies of the Holy Scriptures concerning the

Antichrist, 2 Thess. 2:3‐12; 1 John 2:18, have been fulfilled in the Pope of Rome and his

dominion. All the features of the Antichrist as drawn in these prophecies, including the most

abominable and horrible ones, for example, that the Antichrist "as God sitteth in the temple of

God," 2 Thess. 2:4; that he anathematizes the very heart of the Gospel of Christ, that is, the

doctrine of the forgiveness of sins by grace alone, for Christ's sake alone, through faith alone,

without any merit or worthiness in man (Rom. 3:20‐28; Gal. 2:16); that he recognizes only

those as members of the Christian Church who bow to his authority; and that, like a deluge, he

had inundated the whole Church with his antichristian doctrines till God revealed him through

the Reformation ‐‐ these very features are the outstanding characteristics of the Papacy. (Cf.

Smalcald Articles, Triglot, p. 515, Paragraphs 39‐41; p. 401, Paragraph 45; M. pp. 336, 258.)

Page 13 of 14

Hence we subscribe to the statement of our Confessions that the Pope is "the very Antichrist."

(Smalcald Articles, Triglot, p. 475, Paragraph 10; M., p. 308.)

[missmuffet]

1 hour ago, GoodFruit said:

Oh it gets better!  Read what the Lutheran church believes about the Antichrist.  Seriously?!  This is just crazy thinking!!

 

 

Of the Antichrist

43. As to the Antichrist we teach that the prophecies of the Holy Scriptures concerning the

Antichrist, 2 Thess. 2:3‐12; 1 John 2:18, have been fulfilled in the Pope of Rome and his

dominion. All the features of the Antichrist as drawn in these prophecies, including the most

abominable and horrible ones, for example, that the Antichrist "as God sitteth in the temple of

God," 2 Thess. 2:4; that he anathematizes the very heart of the Gospel of Christ, that is, the

doctrine of the forgiveness of sins by grace alone, for Christ's sake alone, through faith alone,

without any merit or worthiness in man (Rom. 3:20‐28; Gal. 2:16); that he recognizes only

those as members of the Christian Church who bow to his authority; and that, like a deluge, he

had inundated the whole Church with his antichristian doctrines till God revealed him through

the Reformation ‐‐ these very features are the outstanding characteristics of the Papacy. (Cf.

Smalcald Articles, Triglot, p. 515, Paragraphs 39‐41; p. 401, Paragraph 45; M. pp. 336, 258.)

Page 13 of 14

Hence we subscribe to the statement of our Confessions that the Pope is "the very Antichrist."

(Smalcald Articles, Triglot, p. 475, Paragraph 10; M., p. 308.)

Once I had done my eschatology research and realized what the Lutheran Church believed I decided it was time to leave. They tear the book of Revelation apart. There is a warning in the book of Revelation stating that no one should add or take away from the words.

[RustyAngeL]

On 9/26/2016 at 7:49 PM, GoodFruit said:

I'm curious to know if there any here on Worthy that are Amillennial and do not believe in a literal 1,000 yr. reign of Christ?  I was raised as a Lutheran and I never really understood why this denomination seems to completely avoid the book of Revelation and I never remember ever hearing the pastor preach on the end times.  It never really dawned on me until recently to find out why.  So I decided to check the doctrine of the Lutheran church (Missouri Synod) and I was shocked to learn that they don't believe in the Millennium.  I personally do not follow this belief from my own studies and understanding of eschatology over the past 15 yrs.  

If anyone else is Amillennial, I certainly would like to hear your argument in support of it because I don't get it.  Thank you.

 

Here is the LCMS doctrine:

Of the Millennium

42. With the Augsburg Confession (Art. XVII) we reject every type of millennialism, or Chiliasm,

the opinions that Christ will return visibly to this earth a thousand years before the end of the

world and establish a dominion of the Church over the world; or that before the end of the

world the Church is to enjoy a season of special prosperity; or that before a general

resurrection on Judgment Day a number of departed Christians or martyrs are to be raised

again to reign in glory in this world; or that before the end of the world a universal conversion

of the Jewish nation (of Israel according to the flesh) will take place.

Over against this, Scripture clearly teaches, and we teach accordingly, that the kingdom of

Christ on earth will remain under the cross until the end of the world, Act 14:22; John 16:33;

18:36; Luke 9:23; 14:27; 17:20‐37; 2 Tim. 4:18; Heb. 12:28; Luke 18:8; that the second visible

coming of the Lord will be His final advent, His coming to judge the quick and the dead, Matt.

24:29, 30; 25:31; 2 Tim. 4:1; 2 Thess. 2:8; Heb. 9:26‐28; that there will be but one resurrection

of the dead, John 5:28; 6:39, 40; that the time of the Last Day is, and will remain, unknown,

Matt. 24:42; 25:13; Mark 13:32, 37; Acts 1:7, which would not be the case if the Last Day were

to come a thousand years after the beginning of a millennium; and that there will be no

general conversion, a conversion en masse, of the Jewish nation, Rom. 11:7; 2 Cor. 3:14; Rom.

11:25; 1 Thess. 2:16.

According to these clear passages of Scripture we reject the whole of Millennialism, since it

not only contradicts Scripture, but also engenders a false conception of the kingdom of Christ,

turns the hope of Christians upon earthly goals, 1 Cor. 15:19; Col. 3:2, and leads them to look

upon the Bible as an obscure book.

 

I believe very much in the 1000 year reign it is scriptural.  

[Dennis1209]

I'm personally convinced beyond doubt of the millennial reign of Christ. I don't think it would be beneficial to outline my personal eschatological and hermeneutic views on the millennium, other than to say...

Have you ever wondered how so many splits in the church developed, and why we have so many denominations of faith today?