JohnD Posted January 23, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 905 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,646 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,832 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted January 23, 2017 No doubt Jesus was met with strong opposition since even then the Sabbath meant things deeply to those who refused to see it had greater prophetic meaning (then as now) which is why I am answering one point at a time with these posts. each will no doubt solicit many responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 23, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 905 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,646 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,832 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted January 23, 2017 The New Covenant is the sabbath rest / peace with God. Any and every day of the week is an acceptable day to keep a spiritual time of worship or rest in this the sabbath age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heretoeternity Posted January 23, 2017 Group: Seventh Day Adventist Followers: 1 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 480 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/06/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted January 23, 2017 6 minutes ago, JohnD said: Which begs the question "what IS the Sabbath?" Genesis 2, God created the seventh day of the week, He rested, blessed and sanctified (set aside for Holy purposes) the seventh day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD Posted January 23, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 0 Topic Count: 905 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 9,646 Content Per Day: 2.02 Reputation: 5,832 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/07/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted January 23, 2017 26 minutes ago, heretoeternity said: Genesis 2, God created the seventh day of the week, He rested, blessed and sanctified (set aside for Holy purposes) the seventh day... ... and nothing else? Was Jesus wrong? Matthew 12:1–12 (AV) 1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat. 2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. 3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; 4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? 5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? 6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. 7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. 8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day. 9 And when he was departed thence, he went into their synagogue: 10 And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him. 11 And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out? 12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heretoeternity Posted January 23, 2017 Group: Seventh Day Adventist Followers: 1 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 480 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/06/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted January 23, 2017 Thank you, you proved my point...Jesus., who is Lord of the Sabbath said it is okay to do good on the Sabbath.. They picked a few heads of grain to eat, which is okay...as Creator of the Sabbath, He set the rules how to keep it Holy...isn't it wonderful that Jesus who is Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2 27) us how to keep it, removing some of the restrictions the pharisees and legalists had placed up it...the Sabbath day is a gift from God Genesis 2, as a day to spend in worship of God, with family, friends, neighbours, and try to tune out the world...as day of spiritual rejuvenation and psychological and physical rest...it is truly made for man (Mark 2 28)...but satan would sooner have you keep the day dedicated to the sungod (1st day of the week) instead...saying it doesn't matter to God...same thing he told Eve in the garden ...well it does matter, if you turn down this weekly gift from God...anyway if you don't like God's day then you got free will to disobey Him, in this sabbath matter and every other sinful matter... s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted January 23, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 597 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,106 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,839 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 23, 2017 Quote Ex 20:8-11 8 "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy. NASB Quote John 5:16-18 because He was doing these things on the Sabbath. 17 But He answered them, "My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working." NASB There is not distinction between good works and other works in Exodus.... You say he is the Lord of the Sabbath and changed the requirements and I say he did away with it's mandatory observance. Paul agrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heretoeternity Posted January 23, 2017 Group: Seventh Day Adventist Followers: 1 Topic Count: 10 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 480 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 212 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/06/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted January 23, 2017 It is not evident that Paul agrees...what scripture are you quoting if any? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remnantrob Posted January 23, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,029 Content Per Day: 0.15 Reputation: 261 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/25/2005 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/23/1982 Share Posted January 23, 2017 9 hours ago, other one said: There is not distinction between good works and other works in Exodus.... You say he is the Lord of the Sabbath and changed the requirements and I say he did away with it's mandatory observance. Paul agrees. Would this not be considered a good work acceptable if the day fell on the Sabbath? Genesis 17:12-14 Quote 12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed. 13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. 14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted January 24, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 597 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,106 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,839 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 24, 2017 6 hours ago, Remnantrob said: Would this not be considered a good work acceptable if the day fell on the Sabbath? The ten commandments did not deferentiate between good and whatever is left. Says any work. So I don't think it would matter, good or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brakelite Posted January 24, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 977 Content Per Day: 0.21 Reputation: 641 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/15/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted January 24, 2017 Just a reminder of the very first question asked to open this now very long discussion.... On 10/10/2016 at 3:24 AM, AndyMan said: If I was to ask God, "God which is the sabbath day of the week, Saturday or Sunday ?" Which day would he say. God bless. Jesus has already answered this when He gave the tablets of stone to Moses, which said, quote: Remember the seventh day to keep it holy. We all agree that the seventh day is Saturday, and that Sunday is the first day of the week. So there is no debate on that score. Now, we must ask, is it still a special day to the Lord? John in Revelation said that he was in the spirit on the "Lord's day", so the answer is yes, the Lord still, at least in Johns time, had a day which was set aside for some purpose, presumably for gathering together, or meeting with the Lord in spirit to commune with Him, as John was doing. So, if the Sabbath was the seventh day, and the Lord still had a day, we must then ask, is the Lord's day the seventh day Sabbath? Again, Jesus provided a clear definitive answer. Mark 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath. The Sabbath therefore is the Lord's day. It was on the Sabbath that John had his vision, and was given the book of Revelation by the angel on that day. Not the first day of the week, but the seventh day, Saturday. To dispute otherwise is to contradict scripture: to contradict scripture is to place personal opinion above the word of God. You are making of yourself an authority above God Himself. It is the same with the argument "Jesus is my Sabbath rest". Where is there a "Thus sayeth the Lord" which states that a faith in Christ negates observance of the day? Where is there a "thus sayeth the Lord" which states that a faith in Christ that negates the sanctity and holiness of the Sabbath, the Lord's day? That there is a 'rest' in trusting our lives to our Savior there is no doubt, no dispute. But to claim that such a rest displaces the obligation to obey God is to be quite blunt, ludicrous. It goes beyond scripture, and sets up an alternative religion based on personal preference and mood. The insistent argument by some that because the commandment says, "six days thou shalt do all thy labor, but on the seventh thou shalt do no work", somehow means that because Jesus "worked" the works of His Father on the Sabbath, we can leap to the conclusion that we can earn money by working on the Sabbath in selfish pursuit of gain and an increased bank balance, is also ludicrous. We also can "work" the works of our Father, and Jesus clearly told us what those works were. "It is lawful" He said, "to do well on the Sabbath day". To bless others...to heal...to provide for the poor...to mend the broken-hearted...to set captives free...to visit widows and those in prison...these are 'works' that on the Sabbath are lawful and in no wise means that either Jesus or us are breaking the Sabbath by doing them, nor do they mean that the Sabbath is no longer a commandment. Please note something important to grasp. The Pharisees were legalists of the first order. As Jesus declared, they tithed mint and other herbs, but neglected more important things. What were those more important things? They were described by Jesus as weightier matters of the law. Note well that these matters were still a part of the law! They did not negate the law, but were a obligatory part of the same law!! And what were they? judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Matt. 23:23 Those things I listed above as being lawful to do on the Sabbath day, things which Jesus Himself did and described as the "works of His Father", could they be described as "weightier matters of the law? Are they works of judgment, mercy, and faith? Absolutely they are!!! So do they negate the keeping of the Sabbath? NO! They are fully a part of Sabbath keeping, and that was Jesus whole purpose in doing them! He was demonstrating that doing good on the Sabbath day was an integral part of observing Sabbath! This was in direct contradiction to the wrongful teachings of the Pharisees, who condemned Jesus for doing good. To use such arguments as an excuse to dispose of the Sabbath altogether is a monstrous distortion of Jesus own motives in doing good. He wasn't healing in order to prove the Sabbath is no longer valid, He was healing because He loves people and was being merciful to their needs...a fully appropriate activity to do any day of the week, including Sabbath. To argue otherwise is to agree with the Pharisees. "You can heal any day of the week, except for the Sabbath". Yeah? Really? That somehow healing someone on the Sabbath is a desecration of that day? Jesus came to show mercy. Was He to stop being Jesus on the Sabbath in order to accomplish His mission? In order to accomplish His mission in revealing God's character to mankind, was He to disobey one of His own commandments? Did God set aside one of His commandments (or any of His commandments) in order for us to better accomplish our purpose in being a light to our fellow man? Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. Did God remove the Sabbath so that we could do His works every day of the week without breaking the Sabbath? Think carefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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