Catholicism and christianity

[enoob57]

It is essence that we see works:
A good water does not come from bad nor the reverse... so it is with salvation a heart formed from Jesus' Life will produce the Life in this place! Love, Steven

[SavedOnebyGrace]

10 minutes ago, Teditis said:

Fair enough question...

I think that it's Jesus' work alone that brings us Salvation as a freely given gift. Our works don't do one iota of help to that Salvation process.

However, I do think that if a Believer trys to add to his/her Salvation by doing good works... thinking that they do help... then they take away from Jesus' work and God's free gift, in certain respects. Still, such a Believer is sustained in Salvation for the mere Faith of believing that Jesus is the One sent by the Father to redeem mankind and is trusting in His work to have essential effect on their own Salvation.

(Hope that makes sense.)

I have a problem with the qualifier, in certain respects, and I believe other born-again believers would too.  It seems to be arguing both grace and works-based salvation simultaneously, not mutually exclusive with respect to salvation by grace.  We are either saved by grace as the Bible says or we are not.  Those saved by God's grace will enter thru the narrow gate; those who rely upon their works will not.  Simple.  Our reward in Heaven is based on the good works God has set aside for us to do, and how well we do them.

On a personal note, I believe I am saved by grace through my faith in Jesus Christ.  God has lined up good works for me to do and I've been an utter failure, for the most part.  Sometimes I feel God saved me so I can financially support my wife, and all-around better person than me.  She's an extrovert who never seems to miss an opportunity to share the Gospel with strangers brought across her path.  I'm an extreme introvert who in another age would be a monk in some monastery. 

[Guest BacKaran]

I agree 

Satan will give you 99 truths if he can get you to swallow one lie.

Upon this Rock I will build my church is a great example of how far off the road the rcc is.

They built a man made religion with titles and orders built on their horrible misunderstand or they knowingly twisted scripture to fit their creation, a new Roman religion.

Thank you for saying that now, if Roman Catholics would just acknowledg their error,

They would be compelled to leave the rcc as many are doing and have done.

 

 

[Hoddie]

1 hour ago, Yowm said:

So Buddhism is older than the Pope.

I would hope so, Pope Francis is only 80 y.o.

Age doesn't guarantee something is true, besides Scripture outdated the Pope going back to Moses.

FYI.... even though you question historys authenticity Yowm, (but as yet, not proved otherwise) it shows the Papacy outdates the bible close to four hudred years. Remember, history shows it was the Catholic Church that compiled the bible in the first place.

Apostolic succession counts when people follow the teachings of the Apostles handed down by Scripture...not the teachings of dunderheads just because they had hands laid on them but have dropped the Apostles teachings...i.e. Scripture.

I relize that history is not a friend Protestantism or Nondenominationals being its exsistance has only been around for a few hundred years for Protestantism, and only 3-4 decades (if that) for non-denominatinational sects. Whereas for Catholicism, history is it's friend, for it can trace its begining to the time of Christ through the wrings of the Apostles and early Church Fathers.

I can see how frustrated you can get Yowm, not being able to use history to benefit your argument like I can, but isn't calling people (present or non-present) names like 'stupid' against the rules of Worthy Christian.com? Wonder what the moderators of Worthy Christian will have to say about this? Steve_S?

　

Peace

[Hoddie]

24 minutes ago, BacKaran said:

I agree

Satan will give you 99 truths if he can get you to swallow one lie.

Upon this Rock I will build my church is a great example of how far off the road the rcc is.

They built a man made religion with titles and orders built on their horrible misunderstand or they knowingly twisted scripture to fit their creation, a new Roman religion.

Thank you for saying that now, if Roman Catholics would just acknowledg their error,

They would be compelled to leave the rcc as many are doing and have done.

 

 

Thank you for your personal, fallible, and open to error opinion BacKaran.

 

Peace

[Hoddie]

2 hours ago, Yowm said:

But you should be able to discern an appearance of evil. Praying with cults gives the impression that you approve of them...no mind reading needed.

You helped my argument here Yowm... key word here is "appearance". i.e.  Something that appears, only 'seems' to give an impression of being. Dosent mean its absolute.  Thanks!

 

Peace

[Guest BacKaran]

Thank you for your personal, fallible, and open to error opinion hoddie, as well.  Maybe Satan gets 98% of the truth and not 99%..... .

 

[Guest BacKaran]

Teditis,

God saves those believers from out of  a false church by bringing them out with His knowledge and guidance.

I was compelled by the Holy Spirit to question all thee rcc told me as it wasn't making common sense. 

When I began on my own to, with the urging and guidance of the Holy Spirit and not the rcc, to study the Bible and find knowledgeable born again preachers and teachers, I could clearly see the rcc as well as other churches are false.

Anyone can get out of the rcc by reading non rcc biblical books and study Bibles, hermanuetics is thee best way to know exactly in its correct context what God has said to us.

Why anyone would remain in a false religion, ie the rcc, if they  see any issue in the rcc that's not biblical, is beyond me. They are choosing to stay with what the devil's told them... Read hoddies post where he mentioned people will swallow any lie the devil says if it's 99% truth..... But it's that one percent deceit that kills.

I wonder why would anyone let themselves be subject to what a man says half way around the world when he's not God?

Jesus makes his free gift of salvation easy, rome complicated the message and added legalistic performances which it not adhered to, then the rcc damns it's followers.

One has a choice. To follow God or the devil, it's that easy. With the rcc clearly seen errors, one can ser it's not a church of God but of the devil.

[Hoddie]

2 hours ago, Yowm said:

I don't question history's authentication. I just know the papacy was not around when the Scriptures were given to Moses and the Prophets.

Here is an article you may find interesting:

Old Testament Roots of Peter and the Keys

by Marcellino D'Ambrosio, Ph.D. on Aug 23, 2014 in Catechesis, Columnists,

More Catholic than the Pope." There is nothing more quintessentially Catholic than the Papacy. When we think "Catholic," we think Rome, the Vatican, the dome of St. Peter’s.

But the roots of the papacy actually go back to Jerusalem and the messiah-kings who ruled there. Like most heads of state, David and his descendants, the anointed kings of Judah, realized that they could not govern alone. The most important officer assisting the king was something akin to a prime minister. He was called "the Master of the Palace."

In Isaiah 22, this Sunday’s first reading, we see God tell an unworthy Master of the Palace, Shebna, that he will be replaced by Eliakim, who will do things right. Here’s what we learn from this passage — the Master of the Palace wears special robes of honor indicating his special authority. He is to be a "father" to everyone in the Kingdom.

The symbol of his authority is a key, for he has the power to open doors for people and to close doors as well. Particularly, he controls access to the king himself. He is someone who you can hang a lot of weight upon, like a peg in a sure spot.

When Jesus began his public ministry, he did not just come right out and proclaim that he was the long-awaited messiah. At Caesarea Philippi (Matthew 16:13-20), he asked his disciples what the crowd was saying about him. They quickly volunteered various opinions they’d heard. But then the Lord asks a more pointed question. "Who do you say that I am?" Perhaps an awkward moment of silence followed. Then one of them blurts out: "You are the Messiah, the son of the living God!"

Notice I did not say that it was Peter who proclaimed this. For he was not yet called Peter. And that’s the point. Nowhere else in the Gospels does Jesus change anyone’s name. In the Old Testament, when God changes someone’s name, it indicates that this person is to play a unique role in salvation history — Abram to Abraham, Jacob to Israel, and so on. Plus, the new God-given name itself provides a clue to the special role the person will play. Abraham means father of many nations, for example.

Peter means, of course, rock. Remember Eliakim, the reliable peg that could bear much weight? A rock is something stable you can stand on, even build on. And the key Jesus is talking about? Jesus is making plain that as founder of the new Israel, he is choosing his prime minister. n fact he notes that it is His Father who made the selection. For it is by virtue of divine revelation that the fisherman knows what no man on his own could know — that Jesus is the Christ, the anointed one of God.

One of the most difficult things to swallow about Catholic teaching is the dogma of papal infallibility. But this passage provides the foundation of this doctrine. Peter, and his successors, are given a charism of truth whereby, when push comes to shove, they are empowered by the Holy Spirit to identify the truth about Jesus. Otherwise, the truth would be up for grabs. If that were the case, the jaws of death would in fact prevail over the Church. Jesus, in making Simon "Peter," made sure they wouldn’t. And despite 2000 years of persecution from without and enemies from within, they haven’t.

So why is Rome the center of the Catholic Church? Because Peter died there. Why the name change after the conclave? Because Peter got one at Caesarea Philippi. And why the fancy robes and the title "Holy Father?" Because Eliakim wore robes of honor and was a "father" to the people. So yes, the Papacy is quintessentially Catholic, but that’s because it is thoroughly biblical.

 

I'll address the rest of your post later Yowm..... right now  I'm off to the links! 

　

Peace

[Guest BacKaran]

Hoddie 

Are you able to quote any Non Roman inspired writings besides the bible?

And please ask your priest why they don't use hermanuetics or expository preaching when trying to explain His Word.

It would be interesting to hear what his excuse is for not using it.