Maybe some Protestants/Non-Catholics can answer......

[White Rabbitt]

Here's a man who has all the answers.

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Edited February 2, 2017 by White Rabbitt

[Ezra]

1 hour ago, Fran C said:

I know this though, the gifts were meant to be for all time, or for never.

If that were true, then Paul would not have made it crystal clear that at least three gifts would cease.  Study 1 Cor 13. When would they cease?  When the Bible was complete. That which is perfect means that which is complete. Check Strong's Cordance. Also the gift of apostle ceased when the apostles were deceased.

[Fran C]

45 minutes ago, Ezra said:

If that were true, then Paul would not have made it crystal clear that at least three gifts would cease.  Study 1 Cor 13. When would they cease?  When the Bible was complete. That which is perfect means that which is complete. Check Strong's Cordance. Also the gift of apostle ceased when the apostles were deceased.

 

Hi @Ezra,

Come on.  Don't send me to Strong's concordance.  I don't even know what that is.  Do you think people that don't have the concordance have any hope of understanding the bible?  Could it be that difficult?  Do I have to know Koine Greek too?

The gifts would cease.  Right.  WHEN will they cease?

Prophecies will cease.

Tongues will cease.

Knowledge will pass away.    Has knowledge passed away yet?  No.  Because the perfect has not come yet.  What is the perfect?  Us. The New Earth. God's eternal Kingdom.  When Jesus returns.  THEN everything will be complete and perfect.  We do everything in PART now because everything is imperfect - then THEN all will be perfect so the gifts will not be necessary but LOVE will always be necessary.

The whole point of 1 Corinthians 12 and 13 is to show how the gifts are for everyone's edification, or the edification of the Church.  To each a different gift is given. 1 Corinthians 12:7-11

The important point of 1 Corinthians 13 is to show how Love is superior, or more excellent, than all the other gifts.  Without love, the other gifts are worth nothing.

Please explain WHEN you think the perfect, or complete will be.  Do you think it will be in THIS age?

Fran

[White Rabbitt]

1 hour ago, Ezra said:

If that were true, then Paul would not have made it crystal clear that at least three gifts would cease.  Study 1 Cor 13. When would they cease?  When the Bible was complete. That which is perfect means that which is complete. Check Strong's Cordance. Also the gift of apostle ceased when the apostles were deceased.

How about this Ezra?

 

Romans 16:7;

Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews who have been in prison with me.

They are highly respected among the Apostles and became followers of Christ before I did.

Now Paul makes mention of many Christians in Europe and Asia but no mention of anyone in Jerusalem.

So I ask you, who are the Apostles that Andronicus and Junia are highly respected by?

Can you find that in your Strongs Concordance?

[OneLight]

38 minutes ago, Fran C said:

Don't send me to Strong's concordance.  I don't even know what that is.

Not to step into your conversation with Ezra, but the Strong Concordance is a way to look up the biblical meaning of each word based in Hebrew (H) and Greek (G).  Here is one link I use.  http://www.eliyah.com/lexicon.html

Try it.  Put in a verse, like John 3:16, next to where it says "Strong's Concordance - King James Version:" and see what it says.  Once there, click on the word or number (if it shows) and see the basic description of the word when it was spoken in scripture.  It is like a dictionary.  There are also many books available that gets much deeper then this site.  Let me know if this is something you would like to look deeper into.

[OneLight]

1 hour ago, Ezra said:

If that were true, then Paul would not have made it crystal clear that at least three gifts would cease.  Study 1 Cor 13. When would they cease?  When the Bible was complete. That which is perfect means that which is complete. Check Strong's Cordance. Also the gift of apostle ceased when the apostles were deceased.

I have asked every person who makes the claim of "that which is perfect has come" means the bible ... which bible, which translation? 

I also see the gifts as still in operation today.  1 Corinthians 12:11 tells me "But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills."  The problem may be that He cannot find people fit for gifts as in the past, for most Christians I know are too busy with life to dedicate their life to Christ's work here.  That does not mean they don't exist, but are we worthy of such gifts ... some to consider.

[Fran C]

5 minutes ago, OneLight said:

I have asked every person who makes the claim of "that which is perfect has come" means the bible ... which bible, which translation? 

I also see the gifts as still in operation today.  1 Corinthians 12:11 tells me "But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills."  The problem may be that He cannot find people fit for gifts as in the past, for most Christians I know are too busy with life to dedicate their life to Christ's work here.  That does not mean they don't exist, but are we worthy of such gifts ... some to consider.

One Light,

I agree with you.  There is only one THING or PERSON that is perfect?  It is God's Kingdom, or God.  Nothing else is perfect.  We see as in a mirror NOW... but THEN, we'll see PERFECTLY.

 

As to the Strong's... Haven't needed it till now.  Let's see how it goes.  I thank you for your kind thought.

Fran

[Fran C]

16 minutes ago, OneLight said:

Not to step into your conversation with Ezra, but the Strong Concordance is a way to look up the biblical meaning of each word based in Hebrew (H) and Greek (G).  Here is one link I use.  http://www.eliyah.com/lexicon.html

Try it.  Put in a verse, like John 3:16, next to where it says "Strong's Concordance - King James Version:" and see what it says.  Once there, click on the word or number (if it shows) and see the basic description of the word when it was spoken in scripture.  It is like a dictionary.  There are also many books available that gets much deeper then this site.  Let me know if this is something you would like to look deeper into.

Hi One Light, 

I see you have over 13,000 posts and you're excusing yourself for "stepping into your converstiaon..."

I believe we are all speaking to each other here and no post is NOT for everyone else besides the person to whom it is addressed.

Hope this is right and we could all just speak to each other!  I'm new so I'm just confirming my thoughts.

Fran

[OneLight]

2 minutes ago, Fran C said:

Hi One Light, 

I see you have over 13,000 posts and you're excusing yourself for "stepping into your converstiaon..."

I believe we are all speaking to each other here and no post is NOT for everyone else besides the person to whom it is addressed.

Hope this is right and we could all just speak to each other!  I'm new so I'm just confirming my thoughts.

Fran

Thank you for the kinds words Fran.  It is like overhearing a conversation and jumping in.  Sometimes it is acceptable, and other times it may seem rude to others, which is why I stated what I did so not to offend anyone.

As for the post count, what shows up in green at the number of likes people have given, while the number below is the actual post count.  Your account shows you have 170 posts, but there are 186 likes.  Nice average!

[Ezra]

3 hours ago, Fran C said:

Please explain WHEN you think the perfect, or complete will be.  Do you think it will be in THIS age?

Firstly the knowledge mentioned by Paul is not ordinary knowledge as we know it, but knowledge through Divine revelation. Prophecies, tongues, and knowledge are all related to direct Divine revelation, and that is what we need to see clearly.

So when would these gifts cease?  When Divine revelations came to an end.  And that is when the book of Revelation was completed (AD 90).  Scripture says nothing about "He who is perfect" but it says "That which is complete".  The context makes it clear that this passage has nothing to do with the Second Coming of Christ or the New Heavens and the New Earth.

The proof that this is the correct interpretation is in the writings of the ante-Nicene Fathers (AD 90-300).  Not one of them claimed to be an apostle or a prophet or a tongues-speaker.