Can a Christian be a police officer, knowing that they may have to kill?

[Guest shiloh357]

8 hours ago, Leonardo Von said:

Dear brother Mateo,

 

Grace and mercy and peace from our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

In consideration of your question, here is the answer: it is impossible for anyone to be a follower of Jesus Christ and, at the same time, be a member of the political, judicial or police system. After all, the concepts and values of Jesus and His kingdom are totally opposed to the system that rules this world:

 

 

False.  Since God places a high premium on justice, then those who are led and filled with the Holy Spirit are the first and best people that should be involved our legal, judicial and law enforcement system.  We the ones who can best pursue justice for the poor and the oppressed.  Upholding and practicing justice is not at all contrary to the Scriptures; rather, it is obedience to Scripture. 

[Mateo]

3 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

False.  Since God places a high premium on justice, then those who are led and filled with the Holy Spirit are the first and best people that should be involved our legal, judicial and law enforcement system.  We the ones who can best pursue justice for the poor and the oppressed.  Upholding and practicing justice is not at all contrary to the Scriptures; rather, it is obedience to Scripture. 

I hear this a lot where I am now. It's the idea of two separate Kingdoms. "My kingdom is not of this world," says Jesus. People of the Kingdom of God do not fight.

[Leonardo Von]

On 12/7/2016 at 2:57 PM, Yowm said:

Paul never told the Roman soldier/jailor to give up his occupation now that he was saved...

And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway. And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.
(Act 16:30-34)

Yes  he carried a sword and would have to use it on prisoners if need be...

 

On 12/7/2016 at 1:36 PM, Jayne said:

• Another example of that is then a group of Roman soldiers came to Jesus (apparently under conviction) and asked him "What should we do?" Jesus didn't tell them to abandon the military or stop fighting wars or lay down their swords. He told them to be fair in their military practices - "don't exhort people and be content with your pay".

Dear brothers Yowm and Jayne,

 

Grace and mercy and peace from our Lord Jesus Christ.

I agree that in none of these cases have people been ordered to leave their profession. However, before we jump to conclusions, we must analyze the context of the passage and the reason why none of them received such an order.

First, let us remember what Jesus said:

 

o   “I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.” (John 16.12).

 

Because no one can bear the whole revelation of the Eternal at once, He reveals it gradually. This is why:

 

o   “... the path of the just [ is ] as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.” (Proverbs 4.18).

o   “Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [ it ] until the day of Jesus Christ:” (Philippians 1.6).

 

That is, the improvement is progressive. Gradually Jesus makes us children of the Eternal (John 1:12), namely, working in us His willing and effecting according to His good will as He guides us (Philippians 2: 12-13).

Let's look at each case:

 

o   “And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then? He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise. Then came also publicans to be baptized, and said unto him, Master, what shall we do? And he said unto them, Exact no more than that which is appointed you. And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do v.” (Lucas 3.10-14).

 

Note that neither the crowd nor the publicans and soldiers were converted. Although John's message had awakened several people, he was only preparing the way for Jesus.

 

o   “And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed [ their ] stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway. And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.” (Acts 16.30-34)

 

Here the jailer had just converted. We can not expect a new convert, much less one who has not yet converted, to be able to give up his profession and live by faith (Habakkuk 2.4, Romans 1:17, Galatians 3: 11, Hebrews 10: 38).

Moreover, there is no way to teach the whole Holy Scripture at once.

 

o   “here was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian [ band ], [ a ] devout [ man ], and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway. He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius. And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.” (Acts 10.1-4).

 

As for Cornelius, the fact that he is a pious man of prayer and fearful of the Eternal, does not mean that he is converted. Take the case of Job, for example: though he is a righteous man, upright, fearful of the Eternal, and ever deviating from evil (Job 1: 1), yet he did not know the Eternal. See his testimony:

 

o   “Who [ is ] he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not. Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me. I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. Wherefore I abhor [ myself ], and repent in dust and ashes.” (Job 42.3-6).

 

Job was converted only after the encounter with the Eternal. Until then, he relied on his own righteousness, though he believed and bowed to the Eternal.

Take the case of Apollo:

 

o   “And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, [ and ] mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus. This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John. And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto [ them ], and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.” (Acts 18.24-26).

 

Though he was instructed in the way of the Eternal, fervent in spirit, and diligently teaching the things of the Eternal, yet he was not born again: he knew not the Spirit of the Eternal (such as twelve followers of Jesus whom Paul met in Ephesus - Acts 19: 1- 3).

At last, if Cornelius were a true man of the Eternal, filled with the Spirit of the Eternal, born again, Peter need not have gone there. If he lived as a centurion for several years, it is because he did not understand the path of the Eternal yet more accurately.

To be more exact: we can not use flaws, limitations, ignorance, etc. of the followers of the Eternal as justification for accommodating ourselves to a faith of the size of a mustard seed, to a carnal way of life that gives no place to the supernatural power of the Eternal to act. We need to have the courage to let Jesus make His faith grow in us (see Matthew 13.31,32) until we are able to get out of the system that rules this world (Babylonian System) and live by faith, moved wherever the Spirit of the Eternal guides us (John 3: 8).

May Jesus give us all the boldness to let go of this world and its resources to live His kingdom, namely, the power of the Spirit of the Eternal in the midst of this corrupted and perverse generation (Philippians 2:14, 15):

 

o   “For the kingdom of God [ is ] not in word, but in power.” (1Corinthians 4.20).

 

After all, Ha-Satan and his system are already doomed, and obviously those who are part of it. Therefore, may Jesus enable us to listen to the voice of the Holy Spirit and let ourselves be nourished (Deuteronomy 8.3, Matthew 4: 4, 32-34) and convinced by His Words:

 

o   “And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.” (John 16.8-11).

[Mateo]

12 minutes ago, Leonardo Von said:

 

Dear brothers Yowm and Jayne,

 

 

 

Grace and mercy and peace from our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

I agree that in none of these cases have people been ordered to leave their profession. However, before we jump to conclusions, we must analyze the context of the passage and the reason why none of them received such an order.

 

First, let us remember what Jesus said:

 

 

 

o   “I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.” (John 16.12).

 

 

 

Because no one can bear the whole revelation of the Eternal at once, He reveals it gradually. This is why:

 

 

 

o   “... the path of the just [ is ] as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.” (Proverbs 4.18).

 

o   “Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [ it ] until the day of Jesus Christ:” (Philippians 1.6).

 

 

 

That is, the improvement is progressive. Gradually Jesus makes us children of the Eternal (John 1:12), namely, working in us His willing and effecting according to His good will as He guides us (Philippians 2: 12-13).

 

Let's look at each case:

 

 

 

o   “And the people asked him, saying, What shall we do then? He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise. Then came also publicans to be baptized, and said unto him, Master, what shall we do? And he said unto them, Exact no more than that which is appointed you. And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do v.” (Lucas 3.10-14).

 

 

 

Note that neither the crowd nor the publicans and soldiers were converted. Although John's message had awakened several people, he was only preparing the way for Jesus.

 

 

 

o   “And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed [ their ] stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway. And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.” (Acts 16.30-34)

 

 

 

Here the jailer had just converted. We can not expect a new convert, much less one who has not yet converted, to be able to give up his profession and live by faith (Habakkuk 2.4, Romans 1:17, Galatians 3: 11, Hebrews 10: 38).

 

Moreover, there is no way to teach the whole Holy Scripture at once.

 

 

 

o   “here was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian [ band ], [ a ] devout [ man ], and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway. He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius. And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.” (Acts 10.1-4).

 

 

 

As for Cornelius, the fact that he is a pious man of prayer and fearful of the Eternal, does not mean that he is converted. Take the case of Job, for example: though he is a righteous man, upright, fearful of the Eternal, and ever deviating from evil (Job 1: 1), yet he did not know the Eternal. See his testimony:

 

 

 

o   “Who [ is ] he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not. Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me. I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. Wherefore I abhor [ myself ], and repent in dust and ashes.” (Job 42.3-6).

 

 

 

Job was converted only after the encounter with the Eternal. Until then, he relied on his own righteousness, though he believed and bowed to the Eternal.

 

Take the case of Apollo:

 

 

 

o   “And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, [ and ] mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus. This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John. And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto [ them ], and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.” (Acts 18.24-26).

 

 

 

Though he was instructed in the way of the Eternal, fervent in spirit, and diligently teaching the things of the Eternal, yet he was not born again: he knew not the Spirit of the Eternal (such as twelve followers of Jesus whom Paul met in Ephesus - Acts 19: 1- 3).

 

At last, if Cornelius were a true man of the Eternal, filled with the Spirit of the Eternal, born again, Peter need not have gone there. If he lived as a centurion for several years, it is because he did not understand the path of the Eternal yet more accurately.

 

To be more exact: we can not use flaws, limitations, ignorance, etc. of the followers of the Eternal as justification for accommodating ourselves to a faith of the size of a mustard seed, to a carnal way of life that gives no place to the supernatural power of the Eternal to act. We need to have the courage to let Jesus make His faith grow in us (see Matthew 13.31,32) until we are able to get out of the system that rules this world (Babylonian System) and live by faith, moved wherever the Spirit of the Eternal guides us (John 3: 8).

 

May Jesus give us all the boldness to let go of this world and its resources to live His kingdom, namely, the power of the Spirit of the Eternal in the midst of this corrupted and perverse generation (Philippians 2:14, 15):

 

 

 

o   “For the kingdom of God [ is ] not in word, but in power.” (1Corinthians 4.20).

 

 

 

After all, Ha-Satan and his system are already doomed, and obviously those who are part of it. Therefore, may Jesus enable us to listen to the voice of the Holy Spirit and let ourselves be nourished (Deuteronomy 8.3, Matthew 4: 4, 32-34) and convinced by His Words:

 

 

 

o   “And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.” (John 16.8-11).

 

If this was such a great teaching, why did they not tell them to leave their profession? It sees John was telling them how to do their jobs according to the will of God in Lukd 3. What do you think?

[Leonardo Von]

3 hours ago, Redemption79 said:

good question, it seems in the OT, God is against murder as in taking another human life without a justifiable cause, at the same time, God did install death penalty.....

and He did tell Israelite to get rid of   Canaanites....

 

Greetings Redemption79,

 

Grace and mercy and peace from our Lord Jesus Christ.

With all due respect, brother, what justification is good enough to justify the murder of someone made in the image and likeness of the Eternal, someone for whom Jesus died on the cross just so he would not perish in hell, but would have the opportunity to repent, convert and inherit eternal life (John 3.16)?

Suppose one of our children were to commit a crime (it is good to remember that there is only one good that is God - Matthew 17:19, Mark 10:18, Luke 18:19). I ask Jesus to never allow this in our lives.

I go further: suppose you were the judge in Old Testament times (when the murderer had to be killed), and one of your sons killed the other. How would you proceed? If you did not apply the law (Leviticus 24:14), you would be unjust and corrupt. And if you did, you'd be without two of your children.

What I mean by this is that every thug, in spite of all the evils he does, still has relatives who love him or who depend on him. Not to mention that, since we are all flawed, one hour we will sin. How we want to be treated when this happens.

Let me be clear: I am not apologizing to sin. I am only proposing an inquiry so that together we may reach the most excellent Way (1 Corinthians 12:31).

[ricky]

7 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

False.  Since God places a high premium on justice, then those who are led and filled with the Holy Spirit are the first and best people that should be involved our legal, judicial and law enforcement system.  We the ones who can best pursue justice for the poor and the oppressed.  Upholding and practicing justice is not at all contrary to the Scriptures; rather, it is obedience to Scripture. 

Farther to what Shiloh said, if Christians are to be salt and light, surly Christians should be salt and light in every facet of Society, including political, judicial and police system. political figure, judges and police officers are seen as leaders in society, if these people are openly Christian and doing what is right and just I would imagine that that would show Christianity in a positive light. I think the more Christians in positions of civic leadership the better.

[Mateo]

3 minutes ago, Leonardo Von said:

Greetings Redemption79,

 

 

 

Grace and mercy and peace from our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

With all due respect, brother, what justification is good enough to justify the murder of someone made in the image and likeness of the Eternal, someone for whom Jesus died on the cross just so he would not perish in hell, but would have the opportunity to repent, convert and inherit eternal life (John 3.16)?

 

Suppose one of our children were to commit a crime (it is good to remember that there is only one good that is God - Matthew 17:19, Mark 10:18, Luke 18:19). I ask Jesus to never allow this in our lives.

 

I go further: suppose you were the judge in Old Testament times (when the murderer had to be killed), and one of your sons killed the other. How would you proceed? If you did not apply the law (Leviticus 24:14), you would be unjust and corrupt. And if you did, you'd be without two of your children.

 

What I mean by this is that every thug, in spite of all the evils he does, still has relatives who love him or who depend on him. Not to mention that, since we are all flawed, one hour we will sin. How we want to be treated when this happens.

 

Let me be clear: I am not apologizing to sin. I am only proposing an inquiry so that together we may reach the most excellent Way (1 Corinthians 12:31).

 

If you were a revenger of the Lord, would not you telling the person to stop be mercy and if the continue they would be forsaking their mercy? We never know when the Lord's judgment is upon us.

[Guest shiloh357]

8 minutes ago, Leonardo Von said:

Greetings Redemption79,

 

 

 

Grace and mercy and peace from our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

With all due respect, brother, what justification is good enough to justify the murder of someone made in the image and likeness of the Eternal, someone for whom Jesus died on the cross just so he would not perish in hell, but would have the opportunity to repent, convert and inherit eternal life (John 3.16)?

 

Suppose one of our children were to commit a crime (it is good to remember that there is only one good that is God - Matthew 17:19, Mark 10:18, Luke 18:19). I ask Jesus to never allow this in our lives.

 

I go further: suppose you were the judge in Old Testament times (when the murderer had to be killed), and one of your sons killed the other. How would you proceed? If you did not apply the law (Leviticus 24:14), you would be unjust and corrupt. And if you did, you'd be without two of your children.

 

What I mean by this is that every thug, in spite of all the evils he does, still has relatives who love him or who depend on him. Not to mention that, since we are all flawed, one hour we will sin. How we want to be treated when this happens.

 

Let me be clear: I am not apologizing to sin. I am only proposing an inquiry so that together we may reach the most excellent Way (1 Corinthians 12:31).

 

The death penalty isn't murder.   The Bible prescribes death for those who commit murder.   So they cannot be the same.   The problem with your view is that you are appealing to an emotional approach to Scripture, rather than a spiritual one.   Your views only embolden criminals and increase sin.   God commands us to to enact justice for the oppressed.  Your views promotes disobedience to God.  

[Mateo]

2 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

The death penalty isn't murder.   The Bible prescribes death for those who commit murder.   So they cannot be the same.   The problem with your view is that you are appealing to an emotional approach to Scripture, rather than a spiritual one.   Your views only embolden criminals and increase sin.   God commands us to to enact justice for the oppressed.  Your views promotes disobedience to God.  

I would say the death penalty does not support mercy, the crime is done and the perp is apprehended. Give room for mercy. But in a situation where the person is committing a crime, then if he happens to die and while attempting to stop him then that's Gods Judgement being applied 

[Guest shiloh357]

20 minutes ago, Mateo said:

I would say the death penalty does not support mercy, the crime is done and the perp is apprehended. Give room for mercy. But in a situation where the person is committing a crime, then if he happens to die and while attempting to stop him then that's Gods Judgement being applied 

The death penalty is justice.  I support justice.   I will not give a murderer the mercy he denies to his victim.