Who is this Jewish Messiah?

[Marilyn C]

Just now, Ezra said:

Who said that Abraham was the focal point?  

What I have pointed out to you is that Christ came through Israel because of the Abrahamic Covenant, and I gave you the Scriptures to prove it. All of God's dealings with Israel relate to this covenant.  So it looks like you have been side tracked. Therefore, here's another Scripture to chew on (Rom 9:4,5):

Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, [PATRIARCHS] and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

Hi Ezra,

Not quite understanding what you are trying to point out to me. Can you please elaborate?

Marilyn.

[Marilyn C]

15 hours ago, Ezra said:

It all goes back to Abraham and the Abrahamic Covenant (which also included the Gentiles and the Church).

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. (Galatians 3:16).

The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. (Matthew 1:1).

Hi Ezra,

I think this is your post I was referring to. You said it all goes back to Abraham........

Marilyn.

[Zach]

4 hours ago, Ezra said:

All of God's dealings with Israel relate to this covenant.

To bad you don't believe all God's dealings with the Gentiles relate to this covenant, but you never know, you might come around yet, lol.

[Zach]

6 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

And you're mistaken about something else.  P'shat absolutely applies as this is a direct and essential doctrine that is explicitly taught in the Scriptures, both Old and New Testament.   To deny the Deity of Jesus is to call God the Father and Jesus, liars.

Okay, this is one of the simplest facts to prove. Using P'hat post one scripture where God or Jesus unambiguously states Jesus is God.

Let God be true and every man a liar!

[Guest shiloh357]

2 hours ago, Zach said:

Okay, this is one of the simplest facts to prove. Using P'hat post one scripture where God or Jesus unambiguously states Jesus is God.

Let God be true and every man a liar!

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
(Rev 1:8)

Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.  (Rev 1:11-13)   Cross Reference those two verses with what God says about Himself in  Isa. 41:4, 43:10, 44:6, 48:12

Speaking to Jesus, God the Father calls Jesus "God"  in Hebrews 1:8

But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
(Heb 1:8)  Notice that Jesus' throne is eternal.

Jesus is identified as the Creator in Genesis 1 by the following passages:  John 1:1-3 (the Word was God),  Col. 1:15-18 and Hebrews 1:1-3

Isaiah 9:6-7  identifies Jesus as the Mighty God and the one whose reign will last for all of eternity.

Jesus claims in John 6: 51-58 to be the One who gives eternal life (and only God can give eternal life).  By claiming He was the One who gives eternal life, Jesus is greater than Moses, greater than the Torah and claiming to be God.  That's why most of those standing here stopped following Him.

 

[Zach]

10 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

30 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty

This applies to God, not to Yeshua.  The one, “who is, and who was and who is to come” is clearly identified from the context.  Revelation 1:4 and 5 reads: “Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, AND from Jesus Christ...."

And even if I were to give you the benefit of the doubt on this, it still doesn't prove that two entities with the same title are the same person. For example God and Yeshua are both called Lord, Savior, King of Kings doesn't mean they are the same person. But it gets worse, because Alpha and Omega is a non literal title which can be applicable to both entities.  

[Guest shiloh357]

1 minute ago, Zach said:

This applies to God, not to Yeshua.  The one, “who is, and who was and who is to come” is clearly identified from the context.  Revelation 1:4 and 5 reads: “Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, AND from Jesus Christ...."

And even if I were to give you the benefit of the doubt on this, it still doesn't prove that two entities with the same title are the same person. For example God and Yeshua are both called Lord, Savior, King of Kings doesn't mean they are the same person. But it gets worse, because Alpha and Omega is a non literal title which can be applicable to both entities.  

Of course they are not the same Person.  I never said they were.   Jesus and the Father different Persons, but they are one God.   Jesus refers to Himself by the same terminology that God uses in Isaiah.   Sorry, but the fact that God the Father and Jesus are referred by the same terms means they are both God.

God doesn't share His glory with anyone.  So, terms like Lord, Savior, King of Kings would glorify the Person they are attributed to.   So if God will not share His glory with anyone, and Jesus is being glorified by those terms, it means that Jesus is God.

I don't need the benefit of the doubt from you.  I agree with the Bible and the Bible is true and I reject your mishandling of the holy text.

[Zach]

11 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Of course they are not the same Person.  I never said they were.   Jesus and the Father different Persons, but they are one God.   Jesus refers to Himself by the same terminology that God uses in Isaiah.   Sorry, but the fact that God the Father and Jesus are referred by the same terms means they are both God.

God doesn't share His glory with anyone.  So, terms like Lord, Savior, King of Kings would glorify the Person they are attributed to.   So if God will not share His glory with anyone, and Jesus is being glorified by those terms, it means that Jesus is God.

I don't need the benefit of the doubt from you.  I agree with the Bible and the Bible is true and I reject your mishandling of the holy text.

I've two dogs, they're both border collies, both black and white and both dogs, haha, but there not the same dog. I've also a black and white cat, but its not my dog. Just because scripture uses the same titles for different people doesn't make them the same person.

God doesn't share HIS glory as God, but he gives glory to men.

[Zach]

5 minutes ago, inchrist said:

Any doctrine that changes from Son of God to God the Son or from the Image of God to Being God himself.....has no bearing on salvation....both parties accept Christ  both Parties accept the atonement for sin, both parties believe Christ is the true messiah....both parties acknowledge Christ as King and Lord is to return.

Amen! Amen!

Nowhere in Scripture is believing 'Jesus is God' given as a prerequisite to salvation. Those who proclaim this are by definition; 'outside' Scripture.

[Zach]

5 minutes ago, inchrist said:

Any doctrine that changes from Son of God to God the Son or from the Image of God to Being God himself.....has no bearing on salvation....both parties accept Christ  both Parties accept the atonement for sin, both parties believe Christ is the true messiah....both parties acknowledge Christ as King and Lord is to return.

Amen! Amen!

Nowhere in Scripture is believing 'Jesus is God' given as a prerequisite to salvation. Those who proclaim this are by definition; 'outside' Scripture.