Doug Batchelor, Amazing Facts - LIVE SHOW

[Remnantrob]

5 minutes ago, OneLight said:

 

I pointed to where Doug stated that the Holy Spirit will come and teach us, which I agree, but the scripture he pointed to was Revelation 18:1.  Can you tell me if this was a mistake or does the SDA believe that the Holy Spirit is just another angel?

trying to locate the video so that i can see the context of the quoted text but it's been taken down.  i'll give you an answer once i find it.

[Remnantrob]

14 minutes ago, OneLight said:

 

I pointed to where Doug stated that the Holy Spirit will come and teach us, which I agree, but the scripture he pointed to was Revelation 18:1.  Can you tell me if this was a mistake or does the SDA believe that the Holy Spirit is just another angel?

found the video but the 12:10 marker says nothing about what you are referring to.  Are you speaking about another video and if so could you send me the link?  Thanks

[Remnantrob]

15 hours ago, OneLight said:

 

I pointed to where Doug stated that the Holy Spirit will come and teach us, which I agree, but the scripture he pointed to was Revelation 18:1.  Can you tell me if this was a mistake or does the SDA believe that the Holy Spirit is just another angel?

This is why reading is fundamental....lol I thought you were referencing the video of this post....I read your post over again and realized that you gave the title of the video.  I found the video and heard what you said and you're right he did say it.  Keep in mind that the video is discussing final events of prophecy found in the bible.  He is talking about a great time of trouble that God's people will go through that God will deliver them from.  The power by which this will be accomplished is through the Holy spirit.  Also remember that we view the book of revelation as symbolic so not every time  the word angel comes up does it mean a literal angel.  The same can be said for a plethora of words like beasts, dragons, lambs excetera.  If you look at it from that point of view and not that he said the Holy Spirit is an actual angel then it would make more sense.  Not sure if he still has that bible answers life radio show on sundays but if he does, you could bring this question to him in front of his listeners and see what he says.  

[JohnD]

Mr. Batchelor makes many good points, misapplies them to scriptures that seem to indicate legalism, leans on verses teach grace, but keeps going back to a legalistic requirement for salvation / remaining saved (though he denies it).

James 2:10 (AV)
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

This escapes overt and covert legalists alike: by our very sin nature, we cannot keep the law. If Jesus had our sin nature he could not have kept the law, and his sacrifice on the cross would mean nothing. Jesus is the last adam (1 Corinthians 15:45); a prototype, the direct creation of the Father (Hebrews 10:5, Hebrews 1:5, John 1:14) the same way Adam was the direct creation of God the Word / Jesus preincarnate (Luke 3:38, John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:13-16, Isaiah 44:24, Genesis 1:26-27).

We can only "keep the law" through the imputed righteousness of Christ who kept the law and whose sacrifice enables us to appropriate that righteousness through faith (believing in Jesus Christ). John 3:16-18, Ephesians 2:8-10, 1 John 1:5 - 1 John 2:17, Romans 7 - 8. Galatians 3:25-28. And several other passages.

"Keep my commands"

John 6:28–29 (AV)
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Deuteronomy 18:15–19 (AV)
15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
16 According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
17 And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

John 6:28–29 (AV)
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

John 6:28–29 (AV)
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

repeated for emphasis...

Matthew 7:21-23 is about those who never believed or they believed in another Jesus a false christ.

The ten commandments are the frame work / foundation of the law. Paul teaches through Romans and Galatians that the law kills but the spirit gives life.

This is where many in Christendom er trying to bring the law into grace in subtle ways and in the case of SDA not so subtle ways.

The emphasis in this sabbath era of grace is not to obey the law religiously but to evangelize the lost with as little wasted time (dealing with legalism) as possible.

God never was about building up self righteous people who could keep most of the law or even all of it if that were possible. He was establishing what is good and what is evil.

This world is doomed to burning etc. Why spruce up the nuclear reactor that's about to blow?

"Oh now that you are saved, you must get water baptized, pray the rosary, tithe, go to church every time the doors open, wash feet, do not smoke or drink or dance or lust or get angry without cause, and never lie... or else you're going to hell!"

How many churches are guilty of this same parasitic legalism...

[RustyAngeL]

On 2/7/2017 at 3:08 PM, Snow said:

Yeah Doug Batchelor is really good!..I believe Amazing Facts is Seventh Day Adventist...I have listened to there recorded talkback radio shows..Some really good stuff!

God Bless

Yes it is SDA snow.  God Bless!

[Remnantrob]

On 2/16/2017 at 9:25 PM, JohnD said:

Mr. Batchelor makes many good points, misapplies them to scriptures that seem to indicate legalism, leans on verses teach grace, but keeps going back to a legalistic requirement for salvation / remaining saved (though he denies it).

James 2:10 (AV)
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

This escapes overt and covert legalists alike: by our very sin nature, we cannot keep the law. If Jesus had our sin nature he could not have kept the law, and his sacrifice on the cross would mean nothing. Jesus is the last adam (1 Corinthians 15:45); a prototype, the direct creation of the Father (Hebrews 10:5, Hebrews 1:5, John 1:14) the same way Adam was the direct creation of God the Word / Jesus preincarnate (Luke 3:38, John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:13-16, Isaiah 44:24, Genesis 1:26-27).

We can only "keep the law" through the imputed righteousness of Christ who kept the law and whose sacrifice enables us to appropriate that righteousness through faith (believing in Jesus Christ). John 3:16-18, Ephesians 2:8-10, 1 John 1:5 - 1 John 2:17, Romans 7 - 8. Galatians 3:25-28. And several other passages.

"Keep my commands"

John 6:28–29 (AV)
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Deuteronomy 18:15–19 (AV)
15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;
16 According to all that thou desiredst of the LORD thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the LORD my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not.
17 And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

John 6:28–29 (AV)
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

John 6:28–29 (AV)
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

repeated for emphasis...

Matthew 7:21-23 is about those who never believed or they believed in another Jesus a false christ.

The ten commandments are the frame work / foundation of the law. Paul teaches through Romans and Galatians that the law kills but the spirit gives life.

This is where many in Christendom er trying to bring the law into grace in subtle ways and in the case of SDA not so subtle ways.

The emphasis in this sabbath era of grace is not to obey the law religiously but to evangelize the lost with as little wasted time (dealing with legalism) as possible.

God never was about building up self righteous people who could keep most of the law or even all of it if that were possible. He was establishing what is good and what is evil.

This world is doomed to burning etc. Why spruce up the nuclear reactor that's about to blow?

"Oh now that you are saved, you must get water baptized, pray the rosary, tithe, go to church every time the doors open, wash feet, do not smoke or drink or dance or lust or get angry without cause, and never lie... or else you're going to hell!"

How many churches are guilty of this same parasitic legalism...

The nature of Christ is why most SDA's believe as Doug believes.  We believe that Christ had our fallen nature and relied completely on the Spirit of God to keep the laws of God.  Galations 2:20 tells us that when we allow Christ to live in our dead bodies he now lives our lives and empowers us to keep what he has commanded to to keep.  Legalism would rely on our on strength to keep the law while Doug is advocating relying on the power of the Holy Spirit to do so.  

[JohnD]

14 hours ago, Remnantrob said:

The nature of Christ is why most SDA's believe as Doug believes.  We believe that Christ had our fallen nature and relied completely on the Spirit of God to keep the laws of God.  Galations 2:20 tells us that when we allow Christ to live in our dead bodies he now lives our lives and empowers us to keep what he has commanded to to keep.  Legalism would rely on our on strength to keep the law while Doug is advocating relying on the power of the Holy Spirit to do so.  

A clever sounding argument. But quite untrue. As I pointed out, Jesus is (in body) the direct creation of God the Father the same way Adam was the direct creation Jesus' Spirit (God the Word).

Hebrews 10:3–7 (AV)
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

Colossians 1:13–16 (AV)
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Isaiah 44:24 (AV)
24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Luke 3:38 (AV)
38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

Hebrews 1:1–8 (AV)
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

1 Corinthians 15:40–53 (AV)
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

2 Corinthians 5:12–21 (AV)
12 For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that ye may have somewhat to answer them which glory in appearance, and not in heart.
13 For whether we be beside ourselves, it is to God: or whether we be sober, it is for your cause.
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.
21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Hebrews 4:14–15 (AV)
14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Jesus Christ was a direct creation (in body) of God the Father. The last Adam. A prototype (as Adam was). Independent of the human genome which had been corrupted by sin. As a man he had the same potential to sin as he was tempted in all points like we are but without sin. We are born in sin.

Psalm 51:5 (AV)
5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Hebrews 7:22–26 (AV)
22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

Be blessed.

 

[JohnD]

Galatians 3:24–25 (AV)
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

1 John 1:5–2:17 (AV)
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.
12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name’s sake.
13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Be blessed.

[Guest BacKaran]

http://www.christianmediaresearch.com/content/false-doctrine-doug-batchelor

My aunt is ducked into the SDA lock stock and barrel. This to talk about its beginnings with me..... Tragic.

[chuatnhat]

 

 

Edited March 20, 2017 by chuatnhat