Protestant Apostasy Pending?

[Bible2]

Regarding heretoeternity's comment: "Jesus said in Matthew 5 Heaven and earth will pass away, not one thing will be changed in the law until all is fulfilled...": ----- Regarding Matthew 5:17-18, this means that Jesus came the first time not to abolish the prophecies in the Mosaic law and the Old Testament prophets regarding the Messiah's/ the Christ's first coming, but to fulfill all of those prophecies (Luke 24:44-48; e.g. Acts 3:22-26, Isaiah 53). Matthew 5:17-18 cannot mean (as is sometimes claimed) that Jesus came not to abolish the letter of the commandments of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, for he did come to do that, on the Cross (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Hebrews 7:18-19). Also, Matthew 5:17-18 cannot mean (as is sometimes claimed) that Jesus came to fulfill the letter of all of the Old Covenant Mosaic law's commandments, for he could not possibly have done that. For example, some of those commandments applied only to women after childbirth (Leviticus 12:4-8), or to wives suspected of adultery by their husbands (Numbers 5:19-31). ---------- As the Christ (Matthew 5:17, Luke 24:44-46), the mediator of the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 12:24, Hebrews 7:22, Hebrews 8:6-9), Jesus had the divine authority to contradict the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law's commandments and replace them with his own, even better, New Covenant commandments (Matthew 5:38-44, Matthew 19:7-9, John 8:5-7), such as those he gave in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:19 to 7:29) and in the epistles of Paul the apostle (1 Corinthians 14:37; 1 Thessalonians 4:2). And as the Christ, Jesus had the divine authority to allow his disciples to break the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law's commandments (Matthew 12:1-8).

[Bible2]

Regarding heretoeternity's comment: "Apostle John said in 1st John 2..those who say they know Him and keep not His commandments are liars and the truth is not in them": ----- Note that 1 John 2 does not refer to the commandments of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, which included the letter of the ten commandments written and engraven in stones (2 Corinthians 3:7, Deuteronomy 4:13). For on Jesus' Cross, for both Jews and Gentiles (John 11:51-52), of all times, the letter of the entire Old Covenant Mosaic law was forever abolished (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18), disannulled (Hebrews 7:18), rendered obsolete (Hebrews 8:13, Galatians 3:2-25, Galatians 4:21 to 5:8), taken away and replaced (Hebrews 10:9) by the better hope (Hebrews 7:19), the better covenant (Hebrews 7:22, Hebrews 8:6-12), the second covenant (Hebrews 8:7, Hebrews 10:9), of Jesus' New Covenant law (Galatians 6:2, John 1:17, Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 12:24, Hebrews 9:15), so that the law was changed (Hebrews 7:12). ---------- All believers, both Jews and Gentles, of all times, are delivered from the letter of the entire Old Covenant Mosaic law, and should not keep it (Romans 7:6; 2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Galatians 2:11-21), or have any desire to keep it (Galatians 4:21 to 5:8, Galatians 3:2-25). Believers keep the spirit of the entire Old Covenant Mosaic law (Romans 7:6) by loving others (Galatians 5:14, Romans 13:8-10), by doing to others as they would have others do to them (Matthew 7:12). ---------- The New Covenant is a new law (Hebrews 7:12,18-19, Hebrews 10:1-23), consisting of Jesus' New Covenant/New Testament commandments (John 14:15), such as those he gave in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:19 to 7:29) and in the epistles of Paul the apostle (1 Corinthians 14:37). These commandments exceed in righteousness the abolished letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Matthew 5:20-48). So there is no reason why any believer should ever want to go back under the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Galatians 3:2 to 5:26). It was just a temporary schoolmaster (Galatians 3:24-25), a temporary shadow (Colossians 2:16-17), which God set up because of sins long after he had set up the original promise of the Abrahamic Covenant, and long before he brought that promise to fulfillment in Jesus' New Covenant (Galatians 3:16-29, Matthew 26:28).

[Bible2]

Regarding heretoeternity's comment: "Jesus said in Matthew 19.17 to enter into life keep the commandments, and He goes on to identify the ten commandments...": ----- Note that Matthew 19:16-19 does not mean that Christians after the Cross have to keep any part of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law's ministration of death, engraven in stones (2 Corinthians 3:6-18, Romans 7:6). Also, even before the Cross, when Jesus was asked which Old Covenant commandments had to be kept for eternal life, he only said five of the ten commandments had to be kept (Matthew 19:18-19a) and that one other Old Covenant commandment which was not one of the ten commandments also had to be kept (Matthew 19:19b, Leviticus 19:18). And elsewhere, when Jesus lists the Old Covenant's two greatest commandments, neither of them are from the ten commandments (Matthew 22:37-39, Mark 12:29-31). He answered these ways because loving others (both God and people) fulfills the spirit of every Old Covenant commandment (Romans 13:9-10, Galatians 5:14, Matthew 7:12).

[brakelite]

On 5/02/2017 at 2:08 PM, MorningGlory said:

I'm just not buying that the POTUS is leading us into a theocracy.   That's ridiculous.

Good grief, where did I suggest he was leading the US into a theocracy? Unless you equate one with the other, I said he had the 'potential' to lead an historically Protestant nation into apostasy through surrendering the nation into the arms of a coming global papal dictatorship. The uniting of church and state is precisely what such a situation requires, and the re-establishing of Sunday blue laws as a nationwide obligation will seal the deal. Current events clearly reveal that these two things, the latter dependent upon the former, could very well be taking place. To declare otherwise, is to view current events through very Trump tinted glasses.

The Constitution and the principles enshrined therein, if protected,  was designed to forestall such an event. The lessons of European history taught the forbears of your great nation that any future union of church and state, be it RCC or Protestant, would spell disaster for religious freedom, both RCC and Protestant. Prophecy screams from the rooftops however that such a union will once again be established in the earth, globally, and that the US will be at the forefront of such a move.

The popularity of Trump within the Christian community is a very blind faith. That some things he is doing may well be good, that he is honoring his campaign promises revolutionary, but what he is doing if he goes too far has the 'potential' for disaster. The parallels with Constantine are marked.

But hey, most Christians don't even recognize the US in prophecy, much less the papacy. And those who see neither, are caught up in ecumenism big time...just look at the names on Trumps 'best friend' list...either Catholic or very pro-Catholic Protestants ( a misnomer actually as they no longer protest) many proclaiming the protest over. How many stood and cheered along with the late bishop Tony Palmer and Kenneth Copeland at the Popes plea for unity and today have found favor with the White House? Revelation 13 demands a union of church and state. It is the people who in the final analysis actually call for it. This can only take place in a Christian democratic nation with global influence. The USA.

[MorningGlory]

9 hours ago, brakelite said:

Good grief, where did I suggest he was leading the US into a theocracy? Unless you equate one with the other, I said he had the 'potential' to lead an historically Protestant nation into apostasy through surrendering the nation into the arms of a coming global papal dictatorship. The uniting of church and state is precisely what such a situation requires, and the re-establishing of Sunday blue laws as a nationwide obligation will seal the deal. Current events clearly reveal that these two things, the latter dependent upon the former, could very well be taking place. To declare otherwise, is to view current events through very Trump tinted glasses.

The Constitution and the principles enshrined therein, if protected,  was designed to forestall such an event. The lessons of European history taught the forbears of your great nation that any future union of church and state, be it RCC or Protestant, would spell disaster for religious freedom, both RCC and Protestant. Prophecy screams from the rooftops however that such a union will once again be established in the earth, globally, and that the US will be at the forefront of such a move.

The popularity of Trump within the Christian community is a very blind faith. That some things he is doing may well be good, that he is honoring his campaign promises revolutionary, but what he is doing if he goes too far has the 'potential' for disaster. The parallels with Constantine are marked.

But hey, most Christians don't even recognize the US in prophecy, much less the papacy. And those who see neither, are caught up in ecumenism big time...just look at the names on Trumps 'best friend' list...either Catholic or very pro-Catholic Protestants ( a misnomer actually as they no longer protest) many proclaiming the protest over. How many stood and cheered along with the late bishop Tony Palmer and Kenneth Copeland at the Popes plea for unity and today have found favor with the White House? Revelation 13 demands a union of church and state. It is the people who in the final analysis actually call for it. This can only take place in a Christian democratic nation with global influence. The USA.

Okay maybe I misunderstood your post.  However, I don't see Trump leading us into apostacy nor do I see him being pro-Vatican.  I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.  I see no parallels to Constantine.

[brakelite]

16 hours ago, MorningGlory said:

Okay maybe I misunderstood your post.  However, I don't see Trump leading us into apostacy nor do I see him being pro-Vatican.  I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.  I see no parallels to Constantine.

Perhaps you don't want to see any parallels with Constantine either do you? Like I said in my former post, many evangelical and charismatic leaders have already led their people several hundred miles toward Rome, where only one small step is a giant leap into apostasy. Were you at the meeting with the late bishop Tony Palmer where he declared that the protest is over and all Protestants should return to Rome and the entire room full of Protestant leaders stood and cheered? Were you at Washington memorial a few months ago where thousands cheered at the video of Francis calling all to unite again with him? Are you not aware of the massive modern movement of the Protestant church toward Rome as expressed by the Lutherans to be confirmed later this year in Denmark?

Are you not aware of Trumps promise to tear up the Johnson amendment that will be the motivating factor behind the church lobbying and promoting Christian morality including Sunday laws? Are you not aware that in the late 1800s such a move failed only by the narrowest of margins due principally to objections from some very eloquent men espousing religious liberty for Sabbath keepers and atheists?

With a vice-president who is openly and staunchly Catholic how can the white house be anything other than pro-Vatican, particularly in the light of recent history, where every President since Reagan has accelerated Rome/Washington relations, and where Francis addressed the crowd on his last visit from a balcony a step higher than any President in history? All these are but the tip of the ice-berg , and just these are significant enough to have your pioneers turning over in their graves.

[MorningGlory]

brakelite

• Advanced Member
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Quote

 

On 2/6/2017 at 0:50 PM, MorningGlory said:

Okay maybe I misunderstood your post.  However, I don't see Trump leading us into apostacy nor do I see him being pro-Vatican.  I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.  I see no parallels to Constantine.

Quote

Perhaps you don't want to see any parallels with Constantine either do you? Like I said in my former post, many evangelical and charismatic leaders have already led their people several hunI dred miles toward Rome

I sense a conspiracy theory coming on; this is all nonsense.

[KittyBubbleFlowers]

Is it surprising that the anti-Trump fringe would now embark on slandering him in matters of relative bible prophecy? 

Scurrilous agenda's equating a democratically elected Republican to an appointed national socialist in the secular forums. Now, the charge of possibly leading the nation into apostasy, as if that makes any sense whatever.

 Everyone needs a hobby. Slandering a president isn't one to be proud of but there it is. 

 

[MorningGlory]

3 hours ago, KittyBubbleFlowers said:

Is it surprising that the anti-Trump fringe would now embark on slandering him in matters of relative bible prophecy? 

Scurrilous agenda's equating a democratically elected Republican to an appointed national socialist in the secular forums. Now, the charge of possibly leading the nation into apostasy, as if that makes any sense whatever.

 Everyone needs a hobby. Slandering a president isn't one to be proud of but there it is. 

 

There are actually paid internet trolls that post on assigned message boards to spread political agendas; I was reading about this on some website.  It was apparently very rampant during the campaigns.

[missmuffet]

4 minutes ago, MorningGlory said:

There are actually paid internet trolls that post on assigned message boards to spread political agendas; I was reading about this on some website.  It was apparently very rampant during the campaigns.

Hmmm...I can't see that here.