Guest shiloh357 Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 13 minutes ago, Wayne222 said: All figurative language has meaning of course that point to reality. Sodom was destroyed with eternal fire but that fire is not eternal. Same as the lake of fire. I don't think it goes on and on forever. But the destruction of the sinners will be forever. Now God uses ages to mean different thinks. We don't know if they are destroyed for a duration of a age or not. God can restore them after they paid for there sins. I not saying this for sure. But we don't know enough. More then likely it's forever without end. The lake of fire will be an eternal, ongoing, never ending state of conscious torment away from the presence of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted February 11, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.81 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 11, 2017 34 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: The lake of fire will be an eternal, ongoing, never ending state of conscious torment away from the presence of God. Yep, that is what the Bible says Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted February 11, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,242 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 16,653 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted February 11, 2017 17 hours ago, Wayne222 said: I think sister that many things spoken in the bible are not literal. Jesus said rivers of water will come from the belly. Not literally water of course. But he said rivers of water. There is a lot of that in the bible. When Jesus used figurative language He always explained what the literal meaning was. Joh 7:38 WEB He who believes in me, as the Scripture has said, from within him will flow rivers of living water.” Joh 7:39 But he said this about the Spirit, which those believing in him were to receive. For the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus wasn’t yet glorified. The belly was believed to be the innermost being. We usually would say the heart instead, but it literally was the intestines. We might say the gut feeling.. But Scriptures go on to explain that He was speaking of the Holy Spirit as being living water. The parables also give explanations afterwards to the disciples. Scripture also interprets Scripture. The Holy Spirit is described as being like a two edged sword that separates soul from spirit. So the words Jesus spoke that slay the wicked are also probably empowered by the Holy Spirit, even though the Word Who created the universe would most certainly be able to slay the wicked enemies of Christ. I find it amazing that people (in general) would deny the existence of hell. Doing so is denying that God is a righteous judge. It is making accusations against the living Holy God to deny His word. It is contending with Him. A person who does this has not truly surrendered to God and made Him Lord of Lord and King of Kings in his own life. Pride somehow thinks it knows better than God. "My god would never send a person to hell". So he tries to discount and cause doubt of the veracity of the Scriptures. The Gospels become Paul's opinion and Jesus probably didn't actually say that He is the way the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by Him. That was probably added by some monk later. Like satan said in the Garden--"Hath God said?" Satan sows seeds of doubt. This most certainly grieves the Holy Spirit just as it grieves the Spirit within me when my friends say these things. Joh 6:65 He said, “For this cause I have said to you that no one can come to me, unless it is given to him by my Father.” Joh 6:66 At this, many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Joh 6:67 Jesus said therefore to the twelve, “You don’t also want to go away, do you?” Joh 6:68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom would we go? You have the words of eternal life. Joh 6:69 We have come to believe and know that you are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewels7 Posted February 11, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 713 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 351 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/10/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 11, 2017 19 hours ago, Brittany said: Universalism is the belief that every man will be reconciled with God eventually - that people don't go to hell (permanently, at least). I myself am not a universalist, though with reading the Bible, I am finding more support for it (or possible something that just seems to support the doctrine). So, I'm not making this thread so that I can debate others, but so others can give me their reasoning for being universalist or for not being universalist. So, do you believe in universalism? Why/why not? This thread is to help me understand more about universalism. I personally will not be debating, though others are free to debate, and I may ask a few questions from time to time. God bless! There is a school of thought that teaches God instituted the whole fallen human nature sin archetype. God is omniscient and therefore everything God created in the beginning is predestined and we are living fatefully according to his will and plan. Then God sent himself to alter the rule of birth, sin, damnation, that he instituted in the beginning so as to save the world from its sin. This by those scriptures that say Jesus took the sins of the whole world upon himself on the cross. Therefore, that sacrifice assured the whole world to be free of the sin that would find them judged by God and damned after life. And because the lesser consciousness that is limited human nature is incapable of meeting a standard of a higher consciousness. Therefore, because God believed in us he saved the world from its own destructive nature. In other words, God believed in us. Therefore it is not necessary for us to believe in Jesus to be saved by the sacrifice that God ordained took the sins of the whole world away forever. Because God bestowed the rule concerning sin and consequence. And only he can erase that creation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted February 11, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 11, 2017 14 minutes ago, Jewels7 said: There is a school of thought that teaches God instituted the whole fallen human nature sin archetype. God is omniscient and therefore everything God created in the beginning is predestined and we are living fatefully according to his will and plan. Then God sent himself to alter the rule of birth, sin, damnation, that he instituted in the beginning so as to save the world from its sin. This by those scriptures that say Jesus took the sins of the whole world upon himself on the cross. Therefore, that sacrifice assured the whole world to be free of the sin that would find them judged by God and damned after life. And because the lesser consciousness that is limited human nature is incapable of meeting a standard of a higher consciousness. Therefore, because God believed in us he saved the world from its own destructive nature. In other words, God believed in us. Therefore it is not necessary for us to believe in Jesus to be saved by the sacrifice that God ordained took the sins of the whole world away forever. Because God bestowed the rule concerning sin and consequence. And only he can erase that creation. You are not clear in the above post, so I have to ask, is this your belief? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewels7 Posted February 11, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 713 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 351 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/10/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 11, 2017 4 minutes ago, OneLight said: You are not clear in the above post, so I have to ask, is this your belief? It is a school of thought as I said in the beginning. Not my belief or I would have said that too. I can appreciate people do accept that as true. I think the scriptures support them for it. But it is not my belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted February 11, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 11, 2017 4 minutes ago, Jewels7 said: It is a school of thought as I said in the beginning. Not my belief or I would have said that too. I can appreciate people do accept that as true. I think the scriptures support them for it. But it is not my belief. Thanks for clarifying. Being the first time seeing one of your posts, I thought it proper to ask. What scriptures do you think supports Universalism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jewels7 Posted February 11, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 713 Content Per Day: 0.27 Reputation: 351 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/10/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 11, 2017 4 minutes ago, OneLight said: Thanks for clarifying. Being the first time seeing one of your posts, I thought it proper to ask. What scriptures do you think supports Universalism? I'm sure the evidence the Universalist adduces from scripture is plentiful. For a full citation of scripture you'd have to ask an actual Universalist. In my reading I'd say John 17:2 persuades them. As does Ezekiel 18:4. Certainly I would say Isaiah 45:23-24 is compelling. And finally I'd say 1 Timothy 2:6 is likely to apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted February 12, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.23 Reputation: 9,762 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 12, 2017 34 minutes ago, Jewels7 said: I'm sure the evidence the Universalist adduces from scripture is plentiful. For a full citation of scripture you'd have to ask an actual Universalist. In my reading I'd say John 17:2 persuades them. As does Ezekiel 18:4. Certainly I would say Isaiah 45:23-24 is compelling. And finally I'd say 1 Timothy 2:6 is likely to apply. John 17:2 points to those whom were given to Jesus, the disciples, which is explained later in the chapter. Ezekiel 18:4 last statement is that the soul who sin shall die. As for Isaiah 45:23-24, they should begin with verse 22 which states "Look to Me, and be saved, All you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other.". One has to believe in and follow God for the rest of the passage to be true. AS for 1 Timothy 2:6, that would make sense if taken out of context, which is how all false doctrine begins, but once again, look before that verse where we are told "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,". Yes, it is Gods desire that all would accept salvation, but those who do not have chosen their fate, as seen in Revelation 20:11-15 - The Great White Throne Judgment. Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. If their names are not in the Book of Life, through salvation, they will be cast into the lake of fire. You see, anyone can pull verses out of context and make the words say anything they want, with enough twisting. The reason why we all need to study scripture so we know truth from false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snow Posted February 12, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,675 Content Per Day: 0.47 Reputation: 2,124 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/31/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 12, 2017 1 hour ago, Spirit Driven said: aaahhh the Doctrine of Man has Free Will to accept or Reject God ? = Demonic Doctrines warned of in 1 Timothy 4 What is free will? Free will is a doctrine that teaches that man can act independently of God. This should already ring sour to the spiritually-attuned ear. The doctrine of free will teaches that man has the freedom to choose or reject God, never mind the verse that says no man is seeking God (Rom. 3:11). In other words, in the doctrine of free will, man becomes the deciding factor in his own salvation. Jesus Christ’s work on the cross, according to this doctrine, was only a potential salvation, not an actual one. According to this doctrine, the cross of Christ never saved anybody; the cross only saves those who decide to be saved. What about the verse that says no one can come to the Son unless the Father draws him? (Jn. 6:44). Never mind it. What about the verses that say God is the Savior of all mankind (1 Tim. 4:10), and that the blood of the cross will reconcile all to Him (Col. 1:20), whether those on the earth or those in the heavens? Never mind them. Then what about the verse that says God is operating all things in accord with the counsel of His will? (Eph. 1:11) Yes, it is Gods desire that all would accept salvation, but those who do not have chosen their fate, ummmm I think you need to look a bit deeper Hi Spirit Driven Welcome to Worthy I have a question because i am curious...Do you feel a need to preach the gospel to unbelievers? Thanks Snow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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