Left Attacks Melania for Quoting the Lord's Prayer

[heretoeternity]

It is wonderful to see the First Lady open the event with the Lord's Prayer (Matthew 6)...just wonderful...we need more of this type of worship of God in prayer by our politicians no matter what their partisan politics are, and especially at the top...

[Guest]

42 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Who are you that you should sit in judgement on her motives?  How do you know it was for political points?  

And why would a Christian condemn the reading of the Lord's prayer?   I mean, shouldn't political events be the ideal place to be reminded of Jesus' words?  

In the first sentence of the article, it says she was at a campaign rally. Hence, political.

The United States, from the time it was a badly run confederation to the time it was made into a Constitutional republic, has been a secular government. It isn't a theocracy, let alone a Christian theocracy. The politics and kingdoms of this world do not align with the politics and kingdom of God. But for the last 40 years since evangelicals have largely sold their birthright in the Kingdom of God for a bowl of Republican stew, Jesus' words have been used to score political points. And yet, going on forty years the church in the United States is worse, and Christians are decrying the moral depravity. Well guess what? We did this to ourselves.

I have no issue with her quoting the Lord's prayer as such. But I do find it ironic that in it Jesus mentions God's Kingdom coming and His will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Heaven's kingdom =/= the United States, and certainly not the Republican party (or any party for that matter).

[Guest]

3 hours ago, nebula said:

 

The trouble is one side of the political spectrum has been fighting against Jesus. 

So unless you actually want to live in a nation that is ruled by the atheist decree . . . .

We have a secular government, and I'm fairly certain that there are Christians within our government.

We are not a theocracy however, as much as some want to believe that Thomas Jefferson and James Madison struck a deal with God to make us a second Israel, it never actually happened, despite what David Barton says.

[Guest shiloh357]

25 minutes ago, CCole1983 said:

In the first sentence of the article, it says she was at a campaign rally. Hence, political.

It was not a campaign rally.  It was a rally where he went before the American people to explain his agenda.   It was styled like a campaign rally, but it was not a campaign rally. 

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The United States, from the time it was a badly run confederation to the time it was made into a Constitutional republic, has been a secular government. It isn't a theocracy, let alone a Christian theocracy.

Which doesn't mean that Christianity doesn't have a place in the public area, much less the political arena.   If there were any sector of our nation that needs to be exposed to biblical principles, it is the political sector.

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the politics and kingdoms of this world do not align with the politics and kingdom of God.

True, and that is the problem.  Our nation would better served if biblical principles and values played a bigger part in the value system of Washington DC. 

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But for the last 40 years since evangelicals have largely sold their birthright in the Kingdom of God for a bowl of Republican stew, Jesus' words have been used to score political points.

Cite specific examples. 

 

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And yet, going on forty years the church in the United States is worse, and Christians are decrying the moral depravity. Well guess what? We did this to ourselves.

And Christians are to blame for this?  Not buying it.

 

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I have no issue with her quoting the Lord's prayer as such. But I do find it ironic that in it Jesus mentions God's Kingdom coming and His will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Heaven's kingdom =/= the United States, and certainly not the Republican party (or any party for that matter).

So since she quoted the Lord's prayer, that automatically means that she is, in her mind, equating with the Kingdom of Heaven with the US?   On what basis do you assign that value to her?   How do you justify assigning that motive to her reading that prayer???     Are we supposed to accept your assessment just because you say so, or do you any evidence to justify this notion of yours?

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

It was not a campaign rally.

In the Breitbart article you posted, it was referred to as a campaign rally.

 

21 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

If there were any sector of our nation that needs to be exposed to biblical principles, it is the political sector.

I agree, but using Jesus' words for political gain is wrong. The early Christians lived the gospel message and it had an impact. They weren't setting out to reform a pagan Roman government. American evangelical leaders such as Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson referred to a "silent moral majority" and mobilized them into a political force to bring about legislation friendly to Christians. That hasn't worked out so well for us in the long run. Maybe going back to the way Christians did it up until the 4th century would be a good idea.

 

25 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Cite specific examples.

Most recently Ted Cruz, trying to bring back the Moral Majority and playing up his evangelical cred. But there was George W. Bush before him. And Reagan. And nearly every Republican candidate has had to sell themselves to a voting bloc of evangelicals just to get a sniff at the Presidency. Even Trump had to do it to an extent.

 

28 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

And Christians are to blame for this?  Not buying it.

Who else has been given stewardship of the Kingdom of God?

[Guest shiloh357]

15 minutes ago, CCole1983 said:

In the Breitbart article you posted, it was referred to as a campaign rally.

I understand that, but that was only the style of the rally.  Common sense tells us that while it styled as a campaign rally, it was not an actual campaign rally, per se.

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I agree, but using Jesus' words for political gain is wrong.

Again with this assigning values/motives.   What makes you think it was for political gain?   What evidence do you have that such was the motive behind it?

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The early Christians lived the gospel message and it had an impact. They weren't setting out to reform a pagan Roman government.

But they still had an impact on the pagan government and they opposed the pagan the government when what was required opposed Scripture.   Paul, every time he mentioned Jesus as "Lord"  he was making a statement to the pagan government.

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American evangelical leaders such as Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson referred to a "silent moral majority" and mobilized them into a political force to bring about legislation friendly to Christians. That hasn't worked out so well for us in the long run. Maybe going back to the way Christians did it up until the 4th century would be a good idea.

As Americans we should impact a representative government. We should push for legislation that reflects biblical values, regardless of what the outcome will be.  We might be successful, we might not be.  But there is no sphere of American life where we should not be salt and light.

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Most recently Ted Cruz, trying to bring back the Moral Majority and playing up his evangelical cred. But there was George W. Bush before him. And Reagan. And nearly every Republican candidate has had to sell themselves to a voting bloc of evangelicals just to get a sniff at the Presidency. Even Trump had to do it to an extent.

None of that has anything to do with Melania reading the Lord's prayer at the rally.  You cannot point to anything that was inappropriate or was a reproach to God.  It might offend your liberal, anti-Trump sensitivities, but there was nothing actually wrong with it.

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Who else has been given stewardship of the Kingdom of God?

Our job is to be salt and light to the world, even if the world hates it, even if they revolt against it.  How the world responds isn't up to us.  God does not hold us accountable for their response, but only to be light and truth.  Our faith isn't meant to be private or hidden under a bushel.   If the world hates us it's because they hated Jesus first.  

[Guest]

1 minute ago, shiloh357 said:

It might offend your liberal, anti-Trump sensitivities, but there was nothing actually wrong with it.

Read my signature. I am not a liberal. I am not a conservative either. I am not a Republican, a Democrat, or any other political label. You have failed to realize that. That's why we don't get along.

You really aren't getting my point about this. I believe others have.

[Guest shiloh357]

4 minutes ago, CCole1983 said:

Read my signature. I am not a liberal.

I don't believe that.

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You really aren't getting my point about this. I believe others have.

Just because I don't agree with you, it doesn't mean I don't understand you.  I understand you perfectly.   It's just that you're wrong. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

I don't believe that.

Just because I don't agree with you, it doesn't mean I don't understand you.  I understand you perfectly.   It's just that you're wrong. 

You understand nothing about me. It's funny, even a bit ironic, you'll call me out for making assumptions but have no qualms about doing that with me.

[nebula]

2 hours ago, CCole1983 said:

We have a secular government, and I'm fairly certain that there are Christians within our government.

Are Christians not allowed to express their Christianity just because they are government officials?

Whatever happened to "Congress shall make no law ... prohibiting the free exercise thereof [religion]; or abridging the freedom of speech,"?

 

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We are not a theocracy however, as much as some want to believe that Thomas Jefferson and James Madison struck a deal with God to make us a second Israel, it never actually happened, despite what David Barton says.

I never said it was. You miss the point.

Do you actually want to live in a nation that is ruled by the atheist decree? No God allowed? If that is what the Founding Fathers wanted, then why did they open their sessions with prayer?

 

 

And you never answered my question:

You said: "it's likely she was using The Lord's Prayer for political points. ..."

And I asked: "Why do you believe this was the intention of her heart?"

 

I challenge you - Prove it! Where is your proof for your condemnation of her?