Could the antichrist be a Muslim

[iamlamad]

12 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

...

Yea......you keep on believing as you will, I choose to follow the Holy Spirit, not men.  I see your type coming from a mile away sir. Been seeing your type for 30 years. I see all of your trendy ideas come to nought time after time, year after year.

Sorry, but you have never seen "my type" before. We are really not that far off in many areas. I too have have supernatural help in understanding Revelation. God spent weeks with me on chapters 4, 5, and 11 & 12. He sent me first to find "the exact midpoint 'clearly marked.'" He told me how to find that. Then He said I could find the entire 70th week "clearly marked." I found that. Then, when studying chapters 4 & 5, He began asking me questions I could not answer. He gave me 5 questions about these two chapters that I could not answer. Then, after some time of frustration, He sent me to Chapter 12 to find the key I needed to answer these questions. I needed "history lesson" (His words) in my mind. You see, chapters 4 & 5 was God showing John a vision of his past; i.e. a "history lesson" for John. It shows a time before Jesus rose from the dead, to a time immediately after He rose from the dead. Most people are blind to this. His purpose was to introduce John to the book and the timing of His opening the first seals. I will admit, I was SLOW. It was weeks of struggle, trying to answer the 5 questions from my own reasoning. I could not.

My point is, you don't have a "corner" on hearing from the Holy Spirit. But I will admit, we are few in number.

Edited June 1, 2017 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, Giller said:

Or then again maybe you were referring to  this next scripture which seems to refer to Jerusalem:

Rev 16:19
(19)  And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

But remember that chapter 18, actually describes the destruction of mystery Babylon.

Rev 18:1-4
(1)  And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
(2)  And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
(3)  For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
(4)  And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
 

Rev 18:21
(21)  And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

The "great city" as a city of deception will never exist again. Jerusalem will certainly be burned and destroyed. But she will be rebuild. She will never, ever again be a "Babylon" city.

[iamlamad]

11 minutes ago, wingnut- said:

If that was true then you could show your separate event.  The fact is that every single time the gathering/ catching away is spoken of it is included with His coming.  If not, show me the passage that doesn't.

When did I say His coming is after the 70th week?  Is Armageddon during the 70th week or not?  As for where He will be prior to His coming, right here.

Revelation 14:14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and on the cloud sat One like the Son of Man, having on His head a golden crown, and in His hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, “Thrust in Your sickle and reap, for the time has come for You to reap, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” 16 So He who sat on the cloud thrust in His sickle on the earth, and the earth was reaped.

See above, and this is what follows.  Notice anything similar to what happens with the fall of Babylon?

Revelation 14:18 And another angel came out from the altar, who had power over fire, and he cried with a loud cry to him who had the sharp sickle, saying, “Thrust in your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth, for her grapes are fully ripe.” 19 So the angel thrust his sickle into the earth and gathered the vine of the earth, and threw it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trampled outside the city, and blood came out of the winepress, up to the horses’ bridles, for one thousand six hundred furlongs.

It's a parable about the faithful servant and the wicked servant, and you are taking that one verse out of context and not applying the entire passage.

Luke 12:35 “Let your waist be girded and your lamps burning; 36 and you yourselves be like men who wait for their master, when he will return from the wedding, that when he comes and knocks they may open to him immediately. 37 Blessed are those servants whom the master, when he comes, will find watching. Assuredly, I say to you that he will gird himself and have them sit down to eat, and will come and serve them.38 And if he should come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants. 39 But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. 40 Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.”

He is speaking about His coming, and once again attaches the symbol of the thief to it.  Who is He speaking to?

Luke 12:41 Then Peter said to Him, “Lord, do You speak this parable only to us, or to all people?”

His disciples are who He is speaking to, are you implying that though they have been dead and with Him all this time that they were left out of the wedding?  Peter isn't certain if the parable applies only to them, or to everyone, so by your rendering they are not invited to the wedding.  On top of that, if you think that the marriage supper takes place before the end, then you are excluding His children that still remain on earth, specifically the Jewish remnant.  Hosea makes it clear that you are wrong about that.

Hosea 2:16 “And it shall be, in that day,”
Says the Lord,
“That you will call Me ‘My Husband,’
And no longer call Me ‘My Master,’

Hosea 2:19 “I will betroth you to Me forever;
Yes, I will betroth you to Me
In righteousness and justice,
In lovingkindness and mercy;
20 I will betroth you to Me in faithfulness,
And you shall know the Lord.

All believers will be part of the bride, so your wedding can't take place until the very end.

God bless

When the "gathering" will take place, it will be a "coming" for He will be in the air around the earth. I am not denying a "coming."

I should have said, "after the tribulation," not after the 70th week. Some people imagine they can pinpoint the day of His coming by counting 1260 days from the abomination. WRONG! He will come for the Battle of Armageddon some unknown time AFTER the 70th week has finished. In fact, He will be at the marriage and supper in heaven just before He descends. Posttribbers have never been able to explain how the church will be at the marriage, except by moving the marriage and supper out of heaven. Pretrib correctly places the Bride of Christ in heaven at the marriage before Jesus descends to the earth.

a white cloud  Do you really think the King of Kings and Lord of Lords will be sitting on a cloud and will reap with a sickle? This is symbolism at it finest! He will not reap with a real sickle! Where will He be at the midpoint of the week? The correct answer is IN HEAVEN. He will not descend until after the marriage which will not begin until after the 70th week has finished. (it ends with the 7th vial.)

"It's a parable " I am not sure it is a parable. Yet, even in a parable, Jesus gets the facts right His return will be after a wedding. Revelation 19 shows He will return to earth AFTER the marriage.

"He is speaking about His coming"   I agree, and it will be His coming as shown to us in Rev. 19. It does not fit His coming as shown to us in 1 Thes. 4 & 5.  He was speaking to an  "innumerable multitude of people" but we can imagine that His disciples were the closest to Him. We can also correctly guess that most if not all of them were JEWS. (Remember, the 70th week is for JEWS not for the church. It is the end of THEIR age, not our age.)

"are you implying that though they have been dead and with Him all this time that they were left out of the wedding?"  No, I was implying that Jesus does not come until AFTER the wedding if we consider His Revelation 19 coming. The point? How does the church get to the marriage in your thinking? Do you have to move the location of the marriage? Please explain.

The marriage and supper comes just exactly as John shows it, IN HEAVEN and after the end of the 70th week. The Bride of Christ will be there (as the Bride) via the pretrib rapture. The Old Testament saints will be there via their resurrection which will come at the 7th vial. They will be there as guests.

Jesus divorced Israel (the ten tribes) but I don't see where He ever divorced Judah. However, according to Paul, when Christ died, the marriage to Judah was ended so He would be free to marry again.

[iamlamad]

30 minutes ago, wingnut- said:

 

Luke 23:39 Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, “If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us.”

40 But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.” 42 Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.”

43 And Jesus said to him, “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

 

Simple, truth, straight from Jesus' lips.  Is some false doctrine or myth or fable more important than scripture to you?

God bless

It does not sound at all like the myth of  "soul sleep!"

[OneLight]

On 5/31/2017 at 6:21 AM, Diaste said:

Yes. biblegateway and biblehub are my go to studytools. Just a copy and paste error on my part. 

NIV Rev 16:18

 ¹⁸ Then there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder and a severe earthquake. No earthquake like it has ever occurred since mankind has been on earth, so tremendous was the quake.The content is similar enough to conclude these 21 events are not strictly consecutive. More of a consecutive concurrence. 

I wold say that God knew exactly how He wanted us to understand this prophecy, not to rearrange scripture to fit our theology, but to take His word to arrange our theology.  They are, indeed, consecutive.  The opening of the 7th Seal brings out the 7 Trumpets.  They are not all done at the same time.  That does not make sense at all if they all occurred at the same time.  If they were the same, why would God make them different?

In a nutshell, I see the 7 Seals as God poking the world, telling them to wake up.  The 7 Trumpets is God telling the world to take Him dead seriously.  The 7 Bowls is God proving to the world that He is not messing around, change now or forever be banned from His love.  There is His logic to all this, and the very reason why He informed John in such a way and told John to write them in this way.  It is man, though all their hard studies, who felt the need to place them together for one reason or another.

[OneLight]

22 hours ago, BobRyan said:

On 5/30/2017 at 10:22 PM, OneLight said:

Revelations proves it.  Revelation 8:1-6

When He opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven for about half an hour.  And I saw the seven angels who stand before God, and to them were given seven trumpets.  Then another angel, having a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.  And the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, ascended before God from the angel’s hand.  Then the angel took the censer, filled it with fire from the altar, and threw it to the earth. And there were noises, thunderings, lightnings, and an earthquake.

So the seven angels who had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.

Notice that the introduction of the trumpets are after the seventh seal is opened.  Verse 6 comes after verses 1 through 5. 

Each of the sequences of 7 are self contained and cannot be assumed to have been jump-started by the previous chapters . Would have to prove it in each of the cases.

Scripture proves itself.  I don't have to prove a thing, just follow what scripture says, as it is given to us.  I would rather trust John and how he obeyed God, writing what God told him to write, then how man has taken scripture and apply the "pretzel revelation" they come up with.

[OneLight]

7 hours ago, n2thelight said:

Can anybody show me one verse where it's said Christ takes us to heaven,just one...

1 Thessalonians 4:17

After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

Since we will be with the Lord forever, I have to ask you if you think Jesus will ever be in heaven after this event?  Simple question.

[wingnut-]

5 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

When the "gathering" will take place, it will be a "coming" for He will be in the air around the earth.

 

6 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

a white cloud  Do you really think the King of Kings and Lord of Lords will be sitting on a cloud and will reap with a sickle?

 

You're contradicting yourself my friend, same post from you, two opposing thought patterns.  Where are clouds found?  In the air?  I understand the symbolism just fine, but you are having issues agreeing with yourself.

 

9 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

In fact, He will be at the marriage and supper in heaven just before He descends. Posttribbers have never been able to explain how the church will be at the marriage, except by moving the marriage and supper out of heaven.

 

For starters, I am not a post-tribber, so you are still confused as to my position.  Secondly, what scripture do you have to say the marriage supper is in heaven?

 

11 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

"It's a parable " I am not sure it is a parable.

 

You must have missed this verse.

 

Luke 12:41  Then Peter said to Him, “Lord, do You speak this parable only to us, or to all people?”

 

13 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Jesus gets the facts right His return will be after a wedding.

 

So you are going to go ahead and leave the disciples out of the wedding too I guess.

 

25 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

He was speaking to an  "innumerable multitude of people" but we can imagine that His disciples were the closest to Him. We can also correctly guess that most if not all of them were JEWS.

 

And Peter specifically asks if it was just for those He was speaking to or for everyone.  So what was His answer to the question?  The distinction He makes is between the faithful and the wicked, this is the only separation with Jesus.  Believers vs non-believers, nothing in there regarding ethnicity.  There is only one way to heaven, why is that so hard to understand when it is the gospel message?

 

29 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

How does the church get to the marriage in your thinking?

 

The marriage isn't just to the church, it is to all believers.  There is only one bride, Jesus is not a polygamist.  Hosea makes it clear that this includes the Jews, so either Hosea is a false prophet or you will have to rectify this fact to your theory.

 

Hosea 2:16 “And it shall be, in that day,”
Says the Lord,
“That you will call Me ‘My Husband,’
And no longer call Me ‘My Master,’

 

You can't talk around that scripture, or the book of Hosea and the very purpose of it.  Good grief, the man had to marry a harlot to illustrate this and you fail to see the relevance.  Take a good look at the first three chapters of Hosea, seriously.  The marriage supper is symbolic, and what it symbolizes is the eternal things, it takes place after it is finished.

 

I Corinthians 12:12 For as the body is one and has many members, but all the members of that one body, being many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For in fact the body is not one member but many.

 

God bless

[wingnut-]

45 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

It does not sound at all like the myth of  "soul sleep!"

 

Amen brother, it should render it obsolete. 

[iamlamad]

14 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Might or might not be the case, we are not told this, but most every person that HATES God is is an Atheist has Demon Spirits living in them. We are never told however that Satan possesses the Anti-Christ. 

He arises in Rev. 13, we are not told when, but logic says he arises close to the same time. He is the one that places an Image of the Beast in the Temple and gets the world to Worship the Beast as God, he is the one, seemingly, that gives out the Mark of the Beast or Mandates it.

 

The Church is Raptured, the 1.5 Billion people getting killed doesn't add up to deception, it adds up to a Dictatorship like Hitler on steroids. Too many people look at Matthew 24 and think that means the Elect get deceived, whet it means just the opposite, Jesus say IF IT WERE POSSIBLE even the Elect would be deceived, BUT I have TOLD YOU....Then he tells them not to go to these fake christ and false prophets by telling them he will be coming in the Eastern Skies. The Deception is with FEAR along with Miracles. Many take the Mark instead of dying, that's still deception, because you just sold your soul instead of dying FOR LIFE EVER-AFTER. 

But hes is not deceiving the Elect Jews and the Elect Christian's are in Heaven.

The Kings KILL the Harlot.....you have the Harlot mixed up the Anti-Christ/Beast who demands to be Worshiped as GOD....Its not the same. The very people you speak of DESTROY THE HARLOT. (False Religion). 

 

It is the FIFTH that is Killed and cast into the Burning Flame, he is the Ant-Christ/Beast/Little Horn and this is an End Time Event. He is cast into hell with the False Prophet (Rev. 19:20). 

You don't seem to get what that passage means, I didn't get it for 30 years until about a year ago. You seem to think its speaking about Kings living at the End. Now rethink what Daniel 7 is speaking about. 

1. Babylon (Lived on a while, Alexander the Great died there.)

2. Persia (Is Iran today.)

3. Greece (Is still around, the Anti-Christ is born there from my understandings.)

4. Rome  (Rome of course is still around, Italy has been around but of course it has NO POWER.)

5. Little Horn Arises at the End Times and is CAST INT HELL....So the Fifth Beast is cast into hell because he s a MAN, that is why God Reduces the Seven Headed Beast in Rev. 17 to 7 Kings with 5 that have Fallen (ONE IS) and one is YET TO COME (Anti-Christ). So this BEAST is Killed. but the other Beasts........from the perspectives of when the other Beasts lost their Power & Dominion, they did not DIE/Go Away......Babylon was where Alexander the Great died. Persia is today's Iran and has been around in a diminished capacity. Of Course Greece and Rome are still here, but they are not POWERS and haven't been. So they meet the requirements of Daniel chapter 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time. {{{Not at the END TIME....When the Beast/Anti-Christ/Little Horn is cast into hell, that is Jesus SMASHING THE STATUE !! All of those Kingdoms DIE at that very moment in time, Jesus sets up his Kingdom. Their lives that were PROLONGED were from the perspective of when that=y came to power and when their DOMINION was take away from them. }}}

God Bless.........

You have enough here to write a book on!

By the time the Midpoint and 7th trumpet is reached, what will have happened?

1. Rapture  It is only a guess, but my guess is, all children under the age of accountability will go with those "in Christ." Therefore perhaps half of the world's population will go.  Many will be killed in Paul's "sudden destruction" that will instantly follow the rapture.

2. 6 trumpet judgments, which will wipe out at a minimum 1/3 of earth's remaining population.

It is these remaining that will be deceived by the Beast and False prophet. Perhaps 2 billion people remaining. it is only a guess. i imagine a small percentage of these will be believers at the midpoint. Many in Israel will flee into the wilderness, but as a percentage, probably small. 

Then the days of great tribulation start. The mark and image will come, and people will be forced to choose a side: take the mark and be doomed, or refuse the mark and lose your head. People cannot imagine how terrible these days will be! in Revelation this is around chapter 15. Thirst will be an incredible motivator!  I believe drinkable water will be at a premium! It will only be available in stores, and without the mark, no one can buy it. I liken these days to a Jew hiding in Berlin in 1943: their chances for survival will be very close to ZERO.

However, some will survive these days and make it to the sheep and goat judgment. You are correct, the Elect never gets deceived. The greatest deception will be the Beast, declaring himself to be the God of the Jews (and I still believe the Allah of Islam) and people believing it. The false miracles will cause them to believe. It will be the worst case of harlotry (worshiping a false god) ever to come on earth.

"The Kings KILL the Harlot.....you have the Harlot mixed up the Anti-Christ/Beast who demands to be Worshiped as GOD"  You do not understand John's meaning.

The "harlot" is the city of Jerusalem and she does not get destroyed until after the 70th week has finished and the ten horn armies come to Israel to destroy her forever. She is called by God the harlot because of the great deception of the Beast and False prophet that are residing in Jerusalem. You see, Jerusalem was suppose to be the city of God that would draw all men to TRUE worship. But instead, becomes the headquarters for the worst false worship ever to come on earth.  Her destruction is described in chapter 18. But the Beast and False Prophet is not captured until Jesus returns, which will be while Jerusalem is under siege. 

God's goal will be to get the elect Jews (and Hebrews) to the place all hope is gone and ONLY A MIRACLE of God can save even a remnant. Their IDF is gone. All their power has been shattered. They have ONLY GOD to save them. And He does. (Daniel 12:7)

"You seem to think its speaking about Kings living at the End."

John sees four beasts rise up. They SEEM to be another view of the nations represented by the image of chapter 2. But are they really?

Dan. 7:¹¹ I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

¹² As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

¹³ I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

I see here that the Beast (same as the Rev. 13 beast) is caught and slain.

Rev. 19: ²⁰ And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

So at the same time that the Beast of Rev. is slain, the other three beasts (leaders of nations) are allowed to live. How long? I would guess Daniel is saying a year (time) and a month (season) or so. So the Beast like a lion (a leader of Iraq?), a beast like bear (Iran's leader?), and a beast like leopard (Greece?)  How do you see verse 12?

The 4th beast had ten horns. Daniel wrote that there were ten nations, but the beast would take down three of these ten. So Daniel saw a new horn springing up among the ten: the Antichrist Beast of Rev. 13.

I don't see that Daniel called this little horn a 5th Beast: "The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth"

So is this a reference to Rome? How can it be when the leader is the Beast of Rev. 13?