9/23/17, Rev 12:5, X etc..

[Amazing Horse]

23 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

I would disagree that Jesus knew in Matt 24, or He wouldn't of added himself to the list of those who don't know. Can you imagine Jesus telling the disciples that His coming would be in 2017. They would of lost hope. The Father kept this from Him, but we are at the end now. The end times are here.

Dan 12:4 But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge."

1 Thess 5:5 You are all children of the light and children of the day. We do not belong to the night or to the darkness.

Zeph 1:15 That day will be a day of wrath— a day of distress and anguish, a day of trouble and ruin, a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and blackness—

In Hebraic thought, evening twilight is understood as a transitional period between day and night. It is currently understood that it is evening twilight as long as two stars of medium magnitude are visible, but it is night upon the appearance of a third star of medium magnitude. In ancient times, some understood that night begins in a moment in time which is impossible to determine called the twinkling of an eye. This is interesting, as Paul prophesied that the righteous would be resurrected in the twinkling of an eye. Paul's use of the phrase the twinkling of an eye aligns perfectly with the ancient understanding.. http://www.torahcalendar.com/SUNSET.asp

If you think that Jesus could incrase knowledge then he was not perfect alredy , which means that he could not be God .

[other one]

1 hour ago, Amazing Horse said:

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Also using your name Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Jesus knew that date because he is the Father also , but he could not tell because he was  not in resurrected body which is limited , that's the clue that you can't know day or hour in not resurrected body .

 

Also nowhere in bible it says twinkling of eye is sunset , it could aswell be time period less than plancks constant but it's just assumption made by  you , not in Scriptures .

Jesus can't be the father.

[Heb 13:8]

32 minutes ago, Amazing Horse said:

If you think that Jesus could incrase knowledge then he was not perfect alredy , which means that he could not be God .

huh?

[Amazing Horse]

23 minutes ago, other one said:

Jesus can't be the father.

So you say that John 10:30 is not true ?

Proverbs 30:5

5Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

 

Isaiah 12:2

Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.

 

If Jesus Christ is not Lord JEHOVAH from OT then Jesus can't be God .

 

Isaiah 45

5I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

 

Jesus has to be Father aswell , there is only one savior , if he is not YHWH then he is not savior simple as that , Jesus said multiple times that he is YHWH

 

John 18:5

They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.

 

John 8:58

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

 

In this verse Jesus declare that he is YHWH , on what base do you say that Jesus is not YHWH /Father ?

Edited September 15, 2017 by Amazing Horse

[Amazing Horse]

13 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

huh?

How could Jesus know End from Beginning before even creation occured 

Isaiah 46:10

Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

but not know day of rapture , so he had to learn it ?

 

 

Edited September 15, 2017 by Amazing Horse

[other one]

3 hours ago, Amazing Horse said:

So you say that John 10:30 is not true ?

Proverbs 30:5

5Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

 

Isaiah 12:2

Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.

 

If Jesus Christ is not Lord JEHOVAH from OT then Jesus can't be God .

 

Isaiah 45

5I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

 

Jesus has to be Father aswell , there is only one savior , if he is not YHWH then he is not savior simple as that , Jesus said multiple times that he is YHWH

 

John 18:5

They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.

 

John 8:58

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

 

In this verse Jesus declare that he is YHWH , on what base do you say that Jesus is not YHWH /Father ?

Jesus is Lord Jehovah, But Jehovah is not the Father.   Moses and 74 other people saw the God of Israel (Jehovah), but Jesus said no man has seen the Father. So unless there is a huge discrepancy in the Bible, Jesus can not be the Father

 

[Heb 13:8]

3 hours ago, Amazing Horse said:

How could Jesus know End from Beginning before even creation occured 

Isaiah 46:10

Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

but not know day of rapture , so he had to learn it ?

Hi AH. Ok, so if Jesus knows the day of rapture then why would He conceal it from us? We would still be in darkness, and it would surprise us like a thief. Jesus commands the believer to wake up Prov 8:34-36, Matt 24:42-44, Luke 21:34-36, Rom 13:11, 1 Thess 5:1-11, 1 Pet 4:17, Rev 3:1-3. If we can't know then what's the point of being awake?

Amos 3:7 Surely the Sovereign LORD does nothing without revealing his plan to his servants the prophets.

- Heb 13:8

[Amazing Horse]

9 hours ago, other one said:

Jesus is Lord Jehovah, But Jehovah is not the Father.   Moses and 74 other people saw the God of Israel (Jehovah), but Jesus said no man has seen the Father. So unless there is a huge discrepancy in the Bible, Jesus can not be the Father

 

They did not see the Father face to face because they would die , that's why God JEHOVAH always used burning bush , or clouds , or spoke through somebody with Holy Spirit .

 

Exodus 33

17And the LORD said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken: for thou hast found grace in my sight, and I know thee by name.

18And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.

19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.

20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

 

JEHOVAH must be Father , because we would have either multiple God or  four insteed of 3 "parts " of one God .

You probably used NIV where this vers which i will give you is corrupted , try reading it in KJV

1 John 5:7

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Edited September 16, 2017 by Amazing Horse

[Amazing Horse]

8 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Hi AH. Ok, so if Jesus knows the day of rapture then why would He conceal it from us? We would still be in darkness, and it would surprise us like a thief. Jesus commands the believer to wake up Prov 8:34-36, Matt 24:42-44, Luke 21:34-36, Rom 13:11, 1 Thess 5:1-11, 1 Pet 4:17, Rev 3:1-3. If we can't know then what's the point of being awake?

Amos 3:7 Surely the Sovereign LORD does nothing without revealing his plan to his servants the prophets.

- Heb 13:8

I alredy told you why he would conceal , because he was unable to tell it to you because of limited earthly body , it's between days between planck's constants , there is no time in heaven , only we on earth are bound to gravity and to limits so was Jesus when he was on earth , so he could not tell you when it is , but before he came to earth he knew exactly when everything is , he also know it when he got his resurrected body .

 

There are 3 dimensions + 1 time for us earthly people.

Ephesians 3:18

May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

 

But there are more dimensions in Bible , Jesus in his body could appear in room with locked doors or gold in Revelation 21.

Revelation 21:18

And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.

 

Have you ever think how can pure gold be like clean glass ?

Revelation 6:14

And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

 

There must be dimension for it to be able to be rolled up , because in tribulation people would literally hide from God face , because he will remove that firmament so they can see him , and when they do they will die .

 

When you look at piece of paper with some image , you see representation of 3d object on 2d image , to be able to see 3d in 3d you need hologram .

Same goes for Jesus , to be able to see him you can only see his representation in 3d , but to be able to see him like he is ( having multiple dimensions ) , you need to be like him , and that's what will happen to us in resurrected body .

1 John 3:2

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Edited September 16, 2017 by Amazing Horse

[other one]

2 hours ago, Amazing Horse said:

They did not see the Father face to face because they would die , that's why God JEHOVAH always used burning bush , or clouds , or spoke through somebody with Holy Spirit .

 

Exodus 33

17And the LORD said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken: for thou hast found grace in my sight, and I know thee by name.

18And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.

19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.

20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.

 

JEHOVAH must be Father , because we would have either multiple God or  four insteed of 3 "parts " of one God .

You probably used NIV where this vers which i will give you is corrupted , try reading it in KJV

1 John 5:7

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

That is not whatv moses tells us in Exodus

Ex 24:9-11 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel: And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness. And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink. KJV John 6:44-46 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. KJV ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~ Moses and friends saw the God of Israel and were not harmed. Jesus says that no man has seen the father except He that came from Him. So it seems to me that the Father that Jesus speaks of is not what that the Nation of Israel interfaced with in the Old Testament. Looking further: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ John 1:1-10 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. KJV John 8:52-58 Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: whom makest thou thyself? Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:  Yet ye have not known him; but I know him: and if I should say, I know him not, I shall be a liar like unto you: but I know him, and keep his saying. Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. KJV ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It seems to me to be saying that Jesus was what the Nation of Israel interfaced with in the Old Testament days. Jesus in this form was with the Father from the beginning.  It seems to me that the people of the Old Testament days were not aware of the Father except for what they saw through the Jesus in the form he existed in before he became flesh. Further: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Phil 2:5-11Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. KJV ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It appears to me that Jesus as the word was that which the Father worked through to manifest Himself to the people of the Old Testament times. Jesus did not regard himself to want to be the equal to the Father so He took the form of a human to further the works of the Father on earth. Jesus was deity by being in the form of God, but it was the Father that did the work through Him when he was the Word. It appears that the only thing that has changed is Jesus is now flesh working the same way only as a man. The Father exercises His will through Jesus, now in the fleshly body. `~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ John 14:10-11 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. KJV John 17:20-26 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me. And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them. KJV ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It seems to me that Jesus just extended the conduit from Him to us for the Father to do His work through Jesus to us so we could know the Father as the Father knows us. Thus we now can do the work of the Father. I believe this is the path and workings of the Holy Spirit ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~` 1 Cor 15:20-28 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. KJV ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Jesus, before His ascension told the Apostles that all power and authority had been given to Him. After he has subdued everything Jesus will also be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him........ The Father. I don't see the Son always being equal with the Father, either when He was the word nor in the flesh. He will also be subject to the Father after He does the job of bringing the kingdom into it's full power over all and giving it to the Father. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 1 Cor 8:4-6 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth,  (as there be gods many, and lords many,)  But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.