Is Maryology Idolatry?

[simplejeff]

A group called catholics helping catholics,  called saved and set apart and born again by YHWH from heaven,

has been declaring the TRUTH likewise, @spock,  for the GOSPEL'S SAKE,  so that as many as might hear and be saved may hear and be saved, according to YHWH'S WORD, PLAN and SALVATION IN Y'SHUA MESSIAH(JESUS CHRIST).

They are not accepted by most church members,  neither protestant nor catholics,  but they continue to speak the truth as YHWH has REVEALED through HIS SON Y'SHUA MESSIAH and HIS WORD. (even when they are martyred - see Foxes Book of Martyrs - a long long long history, many centuries, of the true testimony of JESUS ever since the first century,  and how they are always persecuted, many arrested, beaten, tortured, and martyred) ... (as JESUS says they would be,  and will be today, tomorrow, until HE RETURNS for HIS PEOPLE)

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

45 minutes ago, Spock said:

969 "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation . . . . Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."⁵¹²

 

^{Spock:  so, she continues to SAVE lost souls and is Mediatrix.  Yet the Bible says there is only one Mediator, the Lord Jesus.} 

Spock, did you read what you underlined? By her intercession!! She doesn't save, Jesus saves. 

Its the same when you pray for someone to be healed. If they are healed, was it YOU that healed them? Or God? You don't have to believe but you need to hit the brakes lightly and stop trying to find something that's not there. 

When a missionary brings the gospel to someone and they become saved. It's Jesus's sacrifice that saves them and that alone. But God used that missionary as a tool and by co-operating with God the missionary became a co-redemtrix. The missionary didn't save the person but co-operated with the Will of God and said yes to His calling. 

Cheers and God Bless 

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

31 minutes ago, Spock said:

I am not infallible (only the Pope is, right? /sarcasm off. Me slapping myself for that) but I can guarantee you I am right when I say the Bible does not promote, advocate, or encourage prayer to anyone but God. 

You're not infallible BUT you guarantee your personal interpretation is the correct one? That is a fascinating statement, can you explain to me what infallible means to you?

Cheers and God Bless 

[Spock]

17 minutes ago, Judas Machabeus said:

Spock, did you read what you underlined? By her intercession!! She doesn't save, Jesus saves. 

Its the same when you pray for someone to be healed. If they are healed, was it YOU that healed them? Or God? You don't have to believe but you need to hit the brakes lightly and stop trying to find something that's not there. 

When a missionary brings the gospel to someone and they become saved. It's Jesus's sacrifice that saves them and that alone. But God used that missionary as a tool and by co-operating with God the missionary became a co-redemtrix. The missionary didn't save the person but co-operated with the Will of God and said yes to His calling. 

Cheers and God Bless 

It says, "taken up to heaven she did not give up this SAVING side office...." 

and of course she is described as a Mediatrix. To be sure we are on the same wavelength, here is a definition:

Noun

mediatrix - a woman who is a mediator     go-between, intercessor, intermediary, intermediator, mediator - a negotiator who acts as a link between parties     Spock: The Bible is clear- there is ONE mediator in heaven, the Lord Jesus.  NOT TWO. She is not a go between to God for mankind. Again, she is just like every other dead saint who passed on, no better, no worse probably (that probably changes after Bema Seat Reward Day).

Edited April 4, 2017 by Spock

[Spock]

15 minutes ago, Judas Machabeus said:

You're not infallible BUT you guarantee your personal interpretation is the correct one? That is a fascinating statement, can you explain to me what infallible means to you?

Cheers and God Bless 

Some of my interpretations or exegesis I'm sure I'm 100% spot on, but I can't be certain I'm 100% on all of them. I'm sure I'm not. 

For example:

Jesus is the Son of God, the Messiah- 100% certain

mary is not the queen of Heaven, Co-mediatrix, was not sinless, etc - 100%

pre Wrath Rapture of the church - 75% 

Catholics who hold onto all this Mary error and refuse to give it up are saved too- 50%

 

 

[simplejeff]

37 minutes ago, Spock said:

Some of my interpretations or exegesis I'm sure I'm 100% spot on, but I can't be certain I'm 100% on all of them. I'm sure I'm not. 

For example:

Jesus is the Son of God, the Messiah- 100% certain

mary is not the queen of Heaven, Co-mediatrix, was not sinless, etc - 100%

pre Wrath Rapture of the church - 75%

Catholics who hold onto all this Mary error and refuse to give it up are saved too- 50%

No scholarship needed.   (that usually makes this worse, btw).

The HEAVENLY CREATOR is PLEASED TO REVEAL to 3 year olds the TRUTH OF JESUS.

THEY (3 year olds)raised to trust YHWH can easily recognize and know idolatry when they see it,  simply,  purely, and without corruption they can be, and they will say so without any corruption, without any prejudice,  with simple true grace in JESUS.

As JESUS says,  UNLESS we become as little children , we wll not see the KINGDOM.

And JESUS the GOOD SHEPHERD SPEAKS to HIS CHILDREN daily - HIS SHEEP - protecting us from the idolatry, etc etc etc

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

9 minutes ago, Spock said:

Some of my interpretations or exegesis I'm sure I'm 100% spot on, but I can't be certain I'm 100% on all of them. I'm sure I'm not. 

For example:

Jesus is the Son of God, the Messiah- 100% certain

mary is not the queen of Heaven, Co-mediatrix, was not sinless, etc - 100%

pre Wrath Rapture of the church - 75% 

Catholics who hold onto all this Mary error and refuse to give it up are saved too- 50%

 

 

So you are the final authority as to what is 100% and what isn't. 

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, Judas Machabeus said:

I'll use your words to respond

Paul talks about holding to the traditions he passed on, written and ORAL. Sorry, but bible alone is a man made tradition and is not supported by scripture.

Big problem here.  Paul in II Thessalonians 2:15 isn't using the word "tradition" the way the RCC does.

Paul uses "tradition" in the sense of "teaching" here.

What the RCC does is, they commit the error of equivocation because they are using the same word but trying to give two different meanings to it.   They define tradition as the words of Jesus and the apostles, but they also define "tradition" to refer to the changing and evolving doctrines of the RCC over time.   The traditions of the RCC and the traditions that Paul is referring to here, are two completely different things.  They are trying to justify their made up doctrines like Mary being assumed into Heaven by forcing Paul's' use of "tradition" in II Thess. 2:15 to mean the same thing as the evolving "traditions" of the RCC.    And that is invalid, not to mention a very sloppy form of hermeneutics.

Paul is referring to the doctrines that he gave them the last he was there at that church in Acts 17: 1-4, 11.   He is not talking about extra oral traditions that are not included in the Bible.   Paul is writing in both I and II Thessalonians to re-enforce the doctrinal teachings he already transmitted to them, previously.   So what we have in both I and II Thessalonians are the teachings that they had received prior in oral form. 

That is a far cry from the RCC just pulling something out of thin air, like Mary never having sex (which is really unlikely) or that Mary was born sinless or that Mary was assumed into heaven like Elijah/Enoch, and none of which can they support when it comes to Mary.   It's all a pack of lies.

 

[simplejeff]

2 minutes ago, Judas Machabeus said:

So you are the final authority as to what is 100% and what isn't. 

As YHWH ALWAYS SAYS,  YHWH IS.    Those who have believed in the religious hypocrites keeping people away from YHWH ,  have failed.  

Those who seek YHWH, and keep seeking YHWH,  FIND HIM - this is YHWH'S PROMISE,  based on Y'SHUA'S FAITHFULNESS, 

not man's doctrines, nor the doctrines of demons - which bring a curse.

[Spock]

9 minutes ago, Judas Machabeus said:

So you are the final authority as to what is 100% and what isn't. 

Nope, the Bible is.  Unfortunately for me, I can't 100% of the time say this so and so doctrine is 100% correct.  I wish I could, but I know better. Again Judas, the Bible is my authority- sola scripture!

i put zero credence in what some Pope Bull (whatever that is called)that he may pass on down because I believe with 100% certainly, he is not infallible in his teachings. Honestly, our brother Shiloh here knows much more than any Pope, I'm pretty sure of that.  But, I'm sure Shiloh is not quite the expert in Catholic traditions as most Popes. 

Have you studied the history of the Popes? ( I did about 35 years ago. It moved me.)  

You do realize your Pope Pius the something said that anyone who doesn't believe in all those doctrines regarding Mary that I enumerated on my opening post, are to be ACCURSED!  Do you honestly believe that?  Do you believe everything your Pope says?  If not, why not?