Why are people denying that Christ is presently a King?

[Retrobyter]

15 hours ago, Limey_Bob said:

Retrobyter, thank you for your post and also for your honest reply that you believe that Christ is not a king right now! I was shocked to read that, and I've also been shocked at others also stating this too.

 

Now whilst I would agree with you that the fulfilment of Bible prophecy for Christ to sit upon David's throne, in the eternal state (or millennium if you are a pre-Millennialist), is still a yet unfulfilled prophetic future event. I would strongly urge you to reconsider your statement that Christ is in no way a king at this present time. Paul writes that the Son of God, had a kingdom, over which he was ruling at the time that he wrote Colossians 1:13; when he referred to the “kingdom of his dear Son.” So if Christ has a kingdom, then in some sense, and I’d suggest that that is a spiritual sense, Christ is ruling, right now, not over this present physical earth on David’s throne, but spiritually and in heaven. I believe that his kingdom rule began at the ascension, he rules spiritually in heaven over his dead saints from the ascension until the second coming, then at the second coming his kingdom rule then becomes literal, physical and eternal over this earth.

 

Several other verses confirm that Jesus Christ is currently reigning, as King over his Kingdom, although remember, I am not saying that this is a physical kingdom here upon this dearth. John at Revelation 1:9 states (using a present tense) that he, at the time of writing (which was before AD 70), was a part of Christ's then extant kingdom: "I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ." Other verses which apply the word kingdom to the Son of God, at the time of writing, (and not merely prophetically), are 2^nd Peter 1:11 and Ephesians 5:5.

 

Finally, Revelation 3:21, where the apostle John writing to the Laodicean church, writes in the present tense in Greek, that Jesus has sat down (which implies the accomplishment of some work), with the Father on his throne, thereby implying that at the time of writing, Jesus Christ was already the King over some Kingdom. This Kingdom, as I have suggested, was at that time of writing, and is still in the year 2017, a spiritual Kingdom, over which Christ is currently ruling from heaven, for remember that God’s very throne is said to be situation in heaven (Revelation 4:2). Christ’s kingdom is not as yet a geographic Kingdom, which is situated on earth. "To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne." (Revelation 3:21, NKJV).

Shalom, Limey_Bob (or would you prefer just Bob?)

You're quite welcome.

First section: Regarding Col. 1:13, I believe that this verse is talking about our DESTINATION - our FUTURE - not the present. The key words are "meet to be" (or "fit to be"), "the inheritance," "hath delivered," and "translated" (in the KJV). Always check the context and the original language:

Colossians 1:3-20
3 We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,
4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints,
5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:
7 As ye also learned of Epaphras our dear fellowservant, who is for you a faithful minister of Christ;
8 Who also declared unto us your love in the Spirit.
9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet (fit) to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven (in the sky), and that are in earth (on the earth), visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
KJV

NT:2427 hikano-oo (hik-an-o'-o); from NT:2425; to enable, i.e. qualify:
KJV - make able (meet).

NT:2819 kleeros (klay'-ros); probably from NT:2806 (through the idea of using bits of wood, etc., for the purpose); a die (for drawing chances); by implication a portion (as if so secured); by extension an acquisition (especially a patrimony, figuratively);
KJV - heritage, inheritance, lot, part.

NT:4506 rhoumai (hroo'-om-ahee); middle voice of an obsolete verb, akin to NT:4482 (through the idea of a current; compare NT:4511); to rush or draw (for oneself), i.e. rescue:
KJV - deliver (-er).

NT:3179 methisteemi (meth-is'-tay-mee); or (1 Cor 13:2) methistanoo (meth-is-tan'-o); from NT:3326 and NT:2476; to transfer, i.e. carry away, depose or (figuratively) exchange, seduce:
KJV - put out, remove, translate, turn away.

(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

This makes these two verses say,

12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which has made us qualified to be partakers of the portion for the holy ones in light:
13 Who has rescued us from the authority of darkness, and has transferred us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

This is not talking about us currently being within His Son's Kingdom; it's talking about our portion or our inheritance being within His Kingdom. It's not a transfer of US; it's a transfer of OUR destiny, of OUR inheritance! He has no more put us within His Son's Kingdom now, than He has rescued us out of the authority of darkness, which currently still exists. However, our DESTINY HAS been reassigned.

 

Second section: Regarding Rev. 1:9, here's the Greek (transliterated) of the verse:

Apokalupsis Ieesou Christou 1:9
9 Egoo Iooannees, ho adelfos humoon kai sugkoinoonos en tee thlipsei kai basileia kai hupomonee en Ieesou, egenomeen en tee neesoo tee kaloumenee Patmoo, dia ton logon tou Theou kai teen marturian Ieesou.
The UBS Greek New Testament

9 Egoo = 9 I
Iooannees, = John,
ho = the
adelfos = brother
humoon = of-you (plural)
kai = and/also
sugkoinoonos = co-participant
en = in
tee = the
thlipsei = pressure
kai = and
basileia = kingdom/royalty/rule/realm
kai = and
hupomonee = cheerful-endurance/constance/confidence/anticipation
en = in
Ieesou, = Yeshua` (Jesus)
egenomeen = was
en = in
tee = the
neesoo = island
tee = the-(one)
kaloumenee = called
Patmoo, = Patmos,
dia = through
ton = the
logon = word/subject/topic
tou = of-the
Theou = God
kai = and/also (through)
teen =the
marturian = witness/testimony
Ieesou. = of-Yeshua`. (Jesus.)

In light of this verse, I need to make the observation that we have been left to "occupy" while Yeshua` is away (Luke 19:13). We are to be making disciples for Yeshua` and that means that we are encouraging people to become subjects for Yeshua`s future Kingdom. It does NOT mean that His Kingdom is present now; it means that we EACH can consider ourselves "subjects" for His future Kingdom AHEAD OF TIME. While we are not yet technically IN His Kingdom (because His Kingdom hasn't started, yet), we can INDIVIDUALLY count ourselves His subjects and acknowledge Him as our King ahead of time.

However, in this particular verse, Yochanan was saying that he was participating in point A = the present tribulation or pressure they were suffering in the 1st Century, point B = the future Kingdom of the Messiah, and the path from point A to point B = the anticipation of Yeshua`s coming and the arrival of God's Kingdom with Him. (Let thy Kingdom come. - Matthew 6:10; Luke 11:2)

 

Third section: Regarding 2 Pet. 1:11, this is NOT a reference to a present Kingdom; it is a reference to a past vision about a future event!

2 Peter 1:5-18
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.
13 Yea, I think it meet (fitting), as long as I am in this tabernacle (tent; his body), to stir you up by putting you in remembrance;
14 Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle (tent; his body), even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.
15 Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance.
16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory (the excelling brightness), This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
18 And this voice which came from heaven (the sky) we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
KJV

And, this is a reference to these passages:

Matthew 16:27-17:9
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
17 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.
6 And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.
7 And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid.
8 And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.
9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
KJV

Mark 8:38-9:10
38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.
2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.
3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.
4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.
5 And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
6 For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.
7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
8 And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man any more, save Jesus only with themselves.
9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.
10 And they kept that saying with themselves, questioning one with another what the rising from the dead should mean.
KJV

Luke 9:26-36
26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.
27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.
28 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.
29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.
30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:
31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.
32 But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.
33 And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said.
34 While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud.
35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.
36 And when the voice was past, Jesus was found alone. And they kept it close, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen.
KJV

This was a VISION, a FORETASTE of what was to come when Yeshua` returned with His Kingdom!

 

Fourth section: Regarding Ephesians 5:5, the inheritance is a FUTURE gifting of what His disciples will receive when He returns:

Ephesians 5:1-5
1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
KJV

So, this, too, is a verse about the FUTURE!

 

Fifth section: Regarding Rev. 3:21, while Yeshua` is indeed seated upon the dais of His Father, it does NOT mean that He is currently reigning!

Revelation 3:20-22
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
KJV

The Greek uses the words, "hoos kagoo enikeesa kai ekathisa meta tou Patros mou en too thronoo autou." These words mean,...

hoos = like/as
kagoo (kai egoo) = and/also I
enikeesa = have-conquered
kai = and/also
ekathisa = have-sat-down
meta = with
tou = the
Patros = Father
mou = of-me
en = in
too = the
thronoo = throne/dais
autou. = of-Him.

Again, refer back to the parable of Luke 19:

Luke 19:11-15
11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
...
KJV

and to the parable in Matthew 25:

Matthew 25:31
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
KJV

Sitting upon a dais with His Father doesn't mean that He is reigning, but note that He goes to His Father "to receive for Himself a Kingdom, and to return" and it is AFTER He has returned that "he [shall] sit upon the throne of His glory."

So, you see, there is a FUTURE Kingdom when Yeshua` returns and THEN He shall reign, not before. A LOT of assumptions have been made about the verses above that do NOT necessarily explicitly nor implicitly suggest that Yeshua` is currently reigning.

 

Finally, regarding the Millennium, that it was mentioned six times in Rev. 20:1-7 does NOT mean that there are six different Millennia! There are just six different points about the ONE chilia etee (Greek for "thousand years")! Yeshua` returns PRIOR to this period of a thousand years. He MUST because He reigns DURING it! Furthermore, He shall continue to reign after the Millennium and into the Eternal State following the Great White Throne Judgment of Revelation 20:8-15!

This is also verified by the text in the Resurrection chapter:

1 Corinthians 15:20-28
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
KJV

The timing of this chapter is this:
1. Yeshua`, the bikuwriym ("firstfruits"), rises from the dead.
2. Those who belong to the Messiah are raised from the dead at the Messiah's coming.
3. Yeshua`, the Messiah, reigns (for the thousand years) until He has subdued all rule and all authority and power, and has put all of his enemies under His feet. (It TAKES TIME to accomplish this!)
4. Yeshua` the Messiah then defeats the last enemy, death. (This happens at the END of the Millennium!)
5. Then (and possibly at the same time), He raises the rest of humanity at "the end." (It is at THIS time that the Great White Throne Judgment will occur.)
6. Then, He delivers up the Kingdom to God His Father and the Son Himself shall be subject unto His Father, the One who put all things under Him.
7. Finally, God His Father is all in all. (And, Yeshua`, now subordinate to His Father, continues to reign over Israel while His Father reigns over the world as the King of Kings or the World Emperor.)

Make sure you read ALL of the chapter, not just the last few verses!