Resurrection Sunday Question

[Neighbor]

Hi, The following is all opinion; my editorial I guess.

If we  could find the actual moment of whatever it is that we want to use as our benchmark time for a celebration, and if we believe the correct time to be important, do we use local time?

https://www.timeanddate.com/time/current-number-time-zones.html

There are more than 24 time zones plus dst creating yet more, some minutes apart others an hour or so apart.

Do we use Jerusalem time, Greenwich time, and if we use  the moment a day begins  is that midnight, sunrise, sunset, and which one at which locale?

I suspect that if we want to be  "correct", we will need to base our measure not on the moon nor on the sun, but instead upon the movement of the entirety of the universe(s) of God's creation of which we still do not know with certainty. 

Perhaps we break the code  of the pyramid the great pyramid, that time measure, which may be of God inspired measure accurate beyond all else that measures and records time past present and future. Now there is  a few year study. or even a lifetime for some. Perhaps a pyramid calendar will unite us. http://atlan.org/articles/the-great-pyramid-and-the-origin-of-the-egyptian-calendar/ But I bet it will not.

The Jewish  lunar-solar (hybrid) calendar, as I remember it, has different numbers of days per each year,  from as few as 258 to  way over 300+. It has had all sorts of adjustments arbitrarity made because eventually with it's drifts the festivals go way out of it's proper season. The Rabbis would huddle and adjust the calendar so that  the holy  religious functions of the faith made more sense.

The point?: No one has  a real accurate reference from which to base the setting of any Holy Day. So it just doesn't much matter what day is resurrection day. It matters that we know of the victory of our Lord and the significance of that victory for our eternal welfare. We may sing  psalms of whatever praise we wish anytime. "Hark The Herald Angels Sing" on the fourth of July, and "He Arose" on every hour of every day.  Sing all with joy and in awe, celebrating the victory over death and the mercy and grace extended by God to those He has foreknown and predestined from before time and creation itself. (Romans 8: 29-30 with emphasis on the entirety of the passage from 18 through 30)

Edited April 18, 2017 by Neighbor

[Deborah_]

8 hours ago, Spock said:

Okay, I waited until after Easter to start this.  I'm sure this has been discussed previously, but I really need to vent here and I really hope to get good replies to help ease my pain.

Why can't "we" change the date we celebrate this important event for Christians to the date that is Biblical?  3 days after Passover, which happens to be the Feast of First Fruits (Jewish calendar). 

Now, I don't know who the we is, but I wouldn't think the Pope would do it, so who, if anybody,  has that power to implement this change world wide.

The first Sunday after the first full moon of the Spring equinox....REALLY!!!!! Who believes this stuff?  And why would anyone want to celebrate his resurrection with bunny rabbits and eggs? What does that have to do with his resurrection?  Don't you see how those traditions have become more important than his resurrection? 

Why does anybody follow this obvious erroneous tradition in lieu of clear instruction from the Bible. Jesus was crucified on the morning right before Passover, right?  So, why not celebrate Resuurection Sunday on the first Sunday AFTER Passover. 

I look forward to reading your thoughts and words. Thank you.

spock

In most years, Easter does occur the Sunday following Passover:

http://www.rayfowler.org/writings/articles/determining-the-dates-for-easter-and-passover/

The main exceptions are when there's a Jewish leap year (making Passover a month 'late')

The biggest problem with changing the date of Easter is that all the different denominations would have to agree. Nobody (not even the Pope) has the power to impose such a change on everyone. And we don't even agree now, because the Orthodox churches insist on following the Gregorian calendar, which means that their festivals are nearly always a few weeks later than ours. Every so often there's talk of a change (usually to fix it to the second Sunday in April and make it easier for school holidays), but that's unlikely ever to happen.

 

Quote

And why would anyone want to celebrate his resurrection with bunny rabbits and eggs? What does that have to do with his resurrection?  Don't you see how those traditions have become more important than his resurrection? 

Because I like Easter eggs. Have never had anything to do with bunnies though. 

Are the Easter traditions more important than the Resurrection? Only for unbelievers, I would say.

[Guest shiloh357]

9 hours ago, Spock said:

lol Shiloh.  But you can't tell me God fearing, Bible believing Christians are more comfortable with TRADITION over TRUTH!  Are you saying that? I'm serious. I really want my brothers and sisters in Christ to explain to me why they celebrate Resurrection Sunday on the wrong Sunday most of the time. 

And once a believer gets wisdom and learns that this "holiday" was piggybacked on a pagan festival to honor Ishtar, the Queen of Heaven, certainly this must cause anger, no?  

I really do want to hear people explain to me why do they keep honoring this day!  

I was talking to a friend of mine who was a missionary to Japan.  Japan has their own ancient pagan customs and traditions and holidays, just like ancient near east.

He said that missionaries had run into a problem not unlike what the early church had to deal with and that is the pull  of culture.    He said that when people converted to Christianity in Japan, they still lived in Japanese culture and for them, the pagan holidays was part of what it meant to be Japanese and new converts would still go and practice those pagan holidays and in many cases, "de-convert"  back to their old pagan, Japanese religion.   The pull of culture was simply stronger in them than their found faith.

So early missionaries to Japan had to come up with something to counter Japanese pagan holidays and the only way to do that was to develop Christian holidays in the context of Japanese culture that would give Japanese Christians holidays to celebrate on the days of the pagan holidays.  They employed harmless customs that were utilized on those days and gave them a more Christian interpretation.   Otherwise, everyone they won to the Lord would remain immersed in Japanese paganism and simply revert back to those old pagan religions.

It is true that fertility rites are the source of Easter.  No one disputes that.   But the early Church, at some point, was faced with the same problem that the early Japanese missionaries were faced with.   People were converting to Christ, but were still living in that culture.   And it is important to understand that in the ancient world, there was no religious freedom, no separate of religion and state.    These customs were mandatory.   For example,  in the Roman Empire, if you wanted a job, you had to join a guild.   If you were blacksmith, or carpenter or metal worker, you had to join the guild that was appropriate to your vocation.   And each guild had a god.   And so you had to honor that god if you wanted to be in the guild and you had to be in that guild if you wanted to able to find work and take care of your family.   So, it wasn't so easy to just leave the culture once you got saved.

So the early church had to come with ways to "Christianize" (for a lack of a better word) pagan customs.   They had to find ways to give early believers a way to honor God in their cultural context, and that is likely where the custom of celebrating Christ's birthday came from.   And it is also where celebrating Jesus' resurrection came from in the context of "new life"  represented in the fertility rites of the ancient world. 

So the early church leaders were not trying to be both pagan and Christian at the same time.  They were not trying to hold on to paganism while trying to Christian or mix paganism with Christianity.   It was never anything sinister like that.    The early church leaders were trying to solve a problem as to how to help believers in the pagan world, where participating in the pagan culture was expected and mandatory, or else.   The early church could not change the culture.     They were not adopting pagan practices, as much as they were introducing a new reality into the culture in the only way they knew to do it.  They likely did not see themselves as adopting paganism, but rather taking the pagan days back, and away from the pagans.

It is important also, to separate the secular customs of Easter from the sacred customs.   The early church did not have Easter eggs or chocolate bunnies or Easter bonnets or parades or anything we associate with the modern, secular customs of Easter.   

[Running Gator]

My take on the date of the celebration of the resurrection of our Lord is that the day we choose is less important than the reason why.  It is not unlike Christmas, I think most of us know that Jesus was not born on December 25th, but it is as good as any other day.  I feel if we get too caught up in the weeds of the date that we loose sight of the purpose.  Can you imagine the infighting among Christians if we tried to move the date of Easter? 

I have no problem with bunnies and eggs, any thing that can give me an excuse to talk about Jesus is a good thing.

[OldSchool2]

23 hours ago, Spock said:

Okay, I waited until after Easter to start this.  I'm sure this has been discussed previously, but I really need to vent here and I really hope to get good replies to help ease my pain.

Why can't "we" change the date we celebrate this important event for Christians to the date that is Biblical?  3 days after Passover, which happens to be the Feast of First Fruits (Jewish calendar)....

Because it's already complicated enough as it is, e.g., when is a full moon full?

See "A Tale of Two Easters" at https://www.infoplease.com/calendar-holidays/major-holidays/tale-two-easters

 

[Spock]

I just want to say how much I have appreciated everyone's comments on this thread. 

While I may not personally agree with the outcome of these decisions, I do appreciate you sharing why you think it is okay to celebrate Resurrection Day on Easter. 

[Guest shiloh357]

34 minutes ago, Spock said:

I just want to say how much I have appreciated everyone's comments on this thread. 

While I may not personally agree with the outcome of these decisions, I do appreciate you sharing why you think it is okay to celebrate Resurrection Day on Easter. 

If you look at it from the reverse perspective, every day belongs to God.  He is sovereign over them all.  It is the pagans who have tried to hi-jack His days for their pagan purposes and we are taking those days back.  We countering their attempts to paganize God's days.  December 25th is the Lord has made.  It is his day.  Easter lands on one of God's days, but we are blunting the pagans' attempt hi-jack it.

[Spock]

3 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

I was talking to a friend of mine who was a missionary to Japan.  Japan has their own ancient pagan customs and traditions and holidays, just like ancient near east.

He said that missionaries had run into a problem not unlike what the early church had to deal with and that is the pull  of culture.    He said that when people converted to Christianity in Japan, they still lived in Japanese culture and for them, the pagan holidays was part of what it meant to be Japanese and new converts would still go and practice those pagan holidays and in many cases, "de-convert"  back to their old pagan, Japanese religion.   The pull of culture was simply stronger in them than their found faith.

So early missionaries to Japan had to come up with something to counter Japanese pagan holidays and the only way to do that was to develop Christian holidays in the context of Japanese culture that would give Japanese Christians holidays to celebrate on the days of the pagan holidays.  They employed harmless customs that were utilized on those days and gave them a more Christian interpretation.   Otherwise, everyone they won to the Lord would remain immersed in Japanese paganism and simply revert back to those old pagan religions.

It is true that fertility rites are the source of Easter.  No one disputes that.   But the early Church, at some point, was faced with the same problem that the early Japanese missionaries were faced with.   People were converting to Christ, but were still living in that culture.   And it is important to understand that in the ancient world, there was no religious freedom, no separate of religion and state.    These customs were mandatory.   For example,  in the Roman Empire, if you wanted a job, you had to join a guild.   If you were blacksmith, or carpenter or metal worker, you had to join the guild that was appropriate to your vocation.   And each guild had a god.   And so you had to honor that god if you wanted to be in the guild and you had to be in that guild if you wanted to able to find work and take care of your family.   So, it wasn't so easy to just leave the culture once you got saved.

So the early church had to come with ways to "Christianize" (for a lack of a better word) pagan customs.   They had to find ways to give early believers a way to honor God in their cultural context, and that is likely where the custom of celebrating Christ's birthday came from.   And it is also where celebrating Jesus' resurrection came from in the context of "new life"  represented in the fertility rites of the ancient world. 

So the early church leaders were not trying to be both pagan and Christian at the same time.  They were not trying to hold on to paganism while trying to Christian or mix paganism with Christianity.   It was never anything sinister like that.    The early church leaders were trying to solve a problem as to how to help believers in the pagan world, where participating in the pagan culture was expected and mandatory, or else.   The early church could not change the culture.     They were not adopting pagan practices, as much as they were introducing a new reality into the culture in the only way they knew to do it.  They likely did not see themselves as adopting paganism, but rather taking the pagan days back, and away from the pagans.

It is important also, to separate the secular customs of Easter from the sacred customs.   The early church did not have Easter eggs or chocolate bunnies or Easter bonnets or parades or anything we associate with the modern, secular customs of Easter.   

I hear what you are saying, but let me play the Angel's Advocate if you permit me - 

What would God do? 

Do you believe God would say to you, "Shiloh, absolutely, let's win these pagans over this way, I like how you are thinking here. If you don't do it this way, they would NEVER stay committed to my son or the consequences would be too much for them to handle." 

Did God need for this to be in order to win people to Christ?  Is this Gods way or man's way? 

And don't forget the decision to change Sabbath, celebrate Resurrection Day on Easter was also highly motivated by anti semitism, which I am pretty sure you know all about that. 

[Spock]

2 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

If you look at it from the reverse perspective, every day belongs to God.  He is sovereign over them all.  It is the pagans who have tried to hi-jack His days for their pagan purposes and we are taking those days back.  We countering their attempts to paganize God's days.  December 25th is the Lord has made.  It is his day.  Easter lands on one of God's days, but we are blunting the pagans' attempt hi-jack it.

Respectfully, this argument doesn't make it for me.

Maybe God has some clearly appointed days that he wants to be remembered: The 7 Feasts pursuant to Leviticus 23. I believe these days also POINT TO YESHUA besides the obvious meaning to the Jews: 

Example:

First Fruits- Resurrection

Passover- crucifixion

Weeks - - giving of the Holy Spirit 

sukkot- birth of Christ

Unleavened bread- Lords body will not decay

Trumpets - Rapture maybe?

Atonement- time of awe

[BobRyan]

13 hours ago, Spock said:

Okay, I waited until after Easter to start this.  I'm sure this has been discussed previously, but I really need to vent here and I really hope to get good replies to help ease my pain.

Why can't "we" change the date we celebrate this important event for Christians to the date that is Biblical?  3 days after Passover, which happens to be the Feast of First Fruits (Jewish calendar). 

 

Good point. In 1 Cor 15 we are reminded that Jesus' resurrection represents the "first fruits" of the dead raised to eternal life. So then... you raise a good question about why this yearly celebration event is being tied to a 7 day cycle day-of-week.