Predators, Dangerous Deviants & J.D. Hall of Pulpit & Pen

[Guest shiloh357]

43 minutes ago, Wayne222 said:

Really ? He knows the Orthodox church better then you by far. I say that not trying to be rude. Hank is looking to be part of a body of christ that really walks in the faith and walks in the love of God.

No, Hank refers to them as the early Church and they are not.  The fact is that Hank was against them, until he was for them and took down every article on his website that criticized the Eastern Orthodox Church once he had converted.   So, I know what he knows, and now he has deluded himself enough to fall to the temptation to convert to a "church" that does not hold to the truths of Scripture, and doesn't hold to the authority of Scripture.

And to say so, is not hate.  It is simply objective fact.   Anyone says it is authentic Christianity is either not being honest with themselves, or is illiterate as to what the EOC really believes.

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, Wayne222 said:

Justication through faith comes out of the gospel but is not the goodnews.

That is pure nonsense.   Justification IS part and parcel of the good news.   Justification is rooted in Christ's sacrifice on the cross and his imputation of righteousness (right standing with God) solely on those merits.   It is the good news that our sins are paid for and we can be declared right before God through Christ.    It's not the entire good news, but it definitely part of it.

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, Wayne222 said:

The gospel brother, is not preaching justification through faith alone in christ alone. The gospel is the preaching of the cross and resurrection of God's son Jesus.

Uh, yeah...  Justification is part of the preaching of the cross, since our justification came through the cross.  We are justified by grace alone, through faith alone in Christ alone.   That is the Gospel, like it or not.

Quote

Don't confuse the two.

I am not confusing anything.

Quote

Many people might not even realize justification through faith is a truth but they are justified by faith when they receive Jesus Christ and become children of God. This doctrin of justification through faith is not the gospel. Jesus himself is the goodnews. And the Orthodox church has it.

No, they do not have it.  In fact, they consider it abhorrent because it means an innocent man died for the guilty and paid for the sins of the guilty and  the doctrine of Justification is not part of their theology because they rejected imputed righteousness.

[Spock]

1 hour ago, Wayne222 said:

Justication through faith comes out of the gospel but is not the goodnews.

Try this one then.....

We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles 16know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in^d Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified. (Gal 2) 

Wayne: if you want to lead someone to Christ Wayne, you point them to Christ only. You don't make them think they could do anything to earn JUSTIFICATION because they can't.  This is the doctrine Shiloh is zealous to defend- justification by faith alone.  This passage even makes it crystal clear that no one will be justified by the works of the law.  

Again, Shiloh, like a shark who smells blood, sees a church doctrine that ADDS works, traditions, whatever, and he exposes it by bringing it out in the open for all to see.  You should be thanking him for this diligence instead of wrongly painting him out to be this insensitive guy. In fact, that is the furthest thing from the truth. Shiloh more than anyone wants people to be saved which is why he is exposing false doctrines and teachings.  

Let me get personal with you here Wayne. I thought I was in fairly good standing with God until someone  like Shiloh challenged me with the thought, maybe I'm not!  Being raised a RCC, I figured I was in good standing because I felt I was better than most, was baptized as a kid, took the sacraments, and thus the balance of weight (my good deeds) favored me.  Guess what?  Had I not been challenged, I was heading straight to Hell, burning along with the devil himself next to me laughing at me, while muttering under his breath, "I enjoyed fooling this bloke!" 

Long story short, after being challenged, I was now confused, having been trapped in all my traditions and muddy teachings.  I had no idea it was all about Christ and nothing about me. I got on my knees sobbing, asking God to forgive me for I am a sinner.  And then God made it clear to me as I watched Jesus being crucified on that cross that he has.........my Son has paid for your sins.  Do you accept his gift?  (I was watching Jesus of Nazareth) 

So, maybe because I was delivered from deception that I completely appreciate people like Shiloh more than you. The bottom line, don't discourage him from saving sinners heading for Hell like I was. 

Spock out

Edited April 22, 2017 by Spock

[Spock]

28 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Exactly, here is an archived article from 1998 showing what CRI used to hold about the Eastern Orthodox Church...

https://web-beta.archive.org/web/20151016194027/www.equip.org/article/the-eastern-orthodox-church

I got this far and a big red flag went up for me....

Like evangelical Protestants, the Orthodox believe all theological knowledge is based upon God’s self-revelation. The Orthodox, however, argue that this revelation is conveyed to the world not only through Scripture but also through Apostolic Tradition; that is, Christ entrusted the divine revelation to the apostles, and they entrusted it to the church, which became the custodian and the interpreter of revelation. This heritage, or Deposit of Faith, is not to be understood as a set of normative doctrines but as a new reality or new life made available to the world by the incarnation of the Word and through the operation of the Holy Spirit.11

[Wayne222]

32 minutes ago, Spock said:

Try this one then.....

We who are Jews by birth and not sinful Gentiles 16know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in^d Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified. (Gal 2) 

Wayne: if you want to lead someone to Christ Wayne, you point them to Christ only. You don't make them think they could do anything to earn JUSTIFICATION because they can't.  This is the doctrine Shiloh is zealous to defend- justification by faith alone.  This passage even makes it crystal clear that no one will be justified by the works of the law.  

Again, Shiloh, like a shark who smells blood, sees a church doctrine that ADDS works, traditions, whatever, and he exposes it by bringing it out in the open for all to see.  You should be thanking him for this diligence instead of wrongly painting him out to be this insensitive guy. In fact, that is the furthest thing from the truth. Shiloh more than anyone wants people to be saved which is why he is exposing false doctrines and teachings.  

Let me get personal with you here Wayne. I thought I was in fairly good standing with God until someone  like Shiloh challenged me with the thought, maybe I'm not!  Being raised a RCC, I figured I was in good standing because I felt I was better than most, was baptized as a kid, took the sacraments, and thus the balance of weight (my good deeds) favored me.  Guess what?  Had I not been challenged, I was heading straight to Hell, burning along with the devil himself next to me laughing at me, while muttering under his breath, "I enjoyed fooling this bloke!" 

Long story short, after being challenged, I was now confused, having been trapped in all my traditions and muddy teachings.  I had no idea it was all about Christ and nothing about me. I got on my knees sobbing, asking God to forgive me for I am a sinner.  And then God made it clear to me as I watched Jesus being crucified on that cross that he has.........my Son has paid for your sins.  Do you accept his gift?  (I was watching Jesus of Nazareth) 

So, maybe because I was delivered from deception that I completely appreciate people like Shiloh more than you. The bottom line, don't discourage him from saving sinners heading for Hell like I was. 

Spock out

Your missing a big point brother. The gospel saves us. The Orthodox church is saved by thar gospel. Not everyone is saved because there in the Orthodox church.  Look at you . You were raised in RCC but did not really received christ. That does not mean others did not. We are saved by the goodnews through faith. Not the preaching of justification through faith. That's the truth. He condemns whole churchs to be not in the faith. That's bigotry in fact. I believe in justification through faith. But that's what happens to me when I believe and trusted in the gospel. 

[Wayne222]

1 hour ago, Yowm said:

Christ who? The Lawgiver? or the One who declares us righteous (justification) apart from works on account of His perfect obedience and sacrifice?

I did not say  christ a law giver like moses. I meant christ the only son of God. Only if he was the living God's son can he be the Savior of the world.

[Wayne222]

3 minutes ago, Yowm said:

There are many Jesus's out there, that is why it must be defined as to which one. The one who justifies us freely for His sake is the Jesus we know.

For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
(2Co 11:4)

But now the urighteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.
(Rom 3:21-25)

 

The christ I have know is the loving son of God who died for sins. We are saved by christ . But anyway I said enough on this subject. To me it's over. I know the people you deny to be saved are saved. You reply but I have said enough of this brother.

[Wayne222]

I meant you can reply but I went over this enough. 

[Spock]

2 minutes ago, Wayne222 said:

The christ I have know is the loving son of God who died for sins. We are saved by christ . But anyway I said enough on this subject. To me it's over. I know the people you deny to be saved are saved. You reply but I have said enough of this brother.

Wayne, technically, no one but God really knows who is saved. 

Btw, Your grandfather died too young at age 33. Too bad, I hear he was pretty good playing that trumpet.  When I taught 5th grade, we discussed the raoaring 20s and Great Depression 30s, and part of that discussion was the rise of jazz. I remember seeing your grandpa's name come up when the kids were researching famous jazz artists.