warrior12 Posted April 23, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 54 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,427 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 1,516 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/05/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 23, 2017 1 minute ago, JoshuasonFlower said: I'll share this Orthodox Christian church resource to help answer your question brother. "Glossolalia" is the word in the article for tongues. Speaking in tongues - the Orthodox Christian viewpoint "This is the excerpt from the last part of the article for brevity as it is a long article. "The Orthodox Church does not rule out Glossolalia. She simply does not regard it as one of the important ones. Better to "speak five words that can be understood...than speak thousands of words in strange tongues." This is the Orthodox Christian viewpoint." " Ok, i read that in a American Orthodox site. So then, they do not actually speak in tongues, but believe it has not ceased. So they are one of the earliest churches and till today they don't actually speak in tongues. Just want to be firm on this as a fact. Good to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 16 minutes ago, JoshuasonFlower said: This resource linked below has been posted before to refute the wording of opponents of the Orthodox Christian church that make inaccurate claims about the actual faith and practice of the Orthodox church. As exampled above. Many here may recall reading this before. This is excerpted from the article linked and sourced to the Orthodox Christian Church of America. Yes and everything you posted only supports my point. You do not hold to Salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. You view works in addition to faith for salvation And you do not hold to imputed righteousness, which is the heart of justification by faith alone. You may use the same terms, but you mean something different than we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuasonFlower Posted April 23, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 3 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 311 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 214 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/14/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 23, 2017 11 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: Yes and everything you posted only supports my point. You do not hold to Salvation by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. You view works in addition to faith for salvation And you do not hold to imputed righteousness, which is the heart of justification by faith alone. You may use the same terms, but you mean something different than we do. Firstly allow me to correct your presumption. I am not Orthodox. To continue. The claim you make beginning with your second sentence has been proven through the same resource to be false. I won't post that resource as it is being ignored as a fact source to correct error that insists on repeating itself so as to consistently misrepresent the actual facts of Orthodox Christian church faith and practice. Those tactics as employed are not biblical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 1 minute ago, JoshuasonFlower said: Firstly allow me to correct your presumption. I am not Orthodox. To continue. The claim you make beginning with your second sentence has been proven through the same resource to be false. I won't post that resource as it is being ignored as a fact source to correct error that insists on repeating itself so as to consistently misrepresent the actual facts of Orthodox Christian church faith and practice. Those tactics as employed are not biblical. The minute the article suggested that salvation is incorporation in Christ's death through baptism, it is clear they do not accept imputed righteousness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuasonFlower Posted April 23, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 3 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 311 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 214 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/14/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 23, 2017 32 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: The minute the article suggested that salvation is incorporation in Christ's death through baptism, it is clear they do not accept imputed righteousness. Do you know the origin of the western Christian doctrine of Imputed Righteousness as you understand it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuasonFlower Posted April 23, 2017 Group: Removed from Forums for Breaking Terms of Service Followers: 3 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 311 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 214 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/14/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted April 23, 2017 James 2:14-26 14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. King James Version (KJV) Public Domain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne222 Posted April 24, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 32 Topic Count: 476 Topics Per Day: 0.17 Content Count: 6,559 Content Per Day: 2.28 Reputation: 7,638 Days Won: 9 Joined: 06/12/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 24, 2017 4 hours ago, shiloh357 said: The minute the article suggested that salvation is incorporation in Christ's death through baptism, it is clear they do not accept imputed righteousness. Calvin believe baptism saves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne222 Posted April 24, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 32 Topic Count: 476 Topics Per Day: 0.17 Content Count: 6,559 Content Per Day: 2.28 Reputation: 7,638 Days Won: 9 Joined: 06/12/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 24, 2017 3 hours ago, JoshuasonFlower said: James 2:14-26 14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. King James Version (KJV) Public Domain A lot of Christians don't want the whole word or they change the meaning of James. Not by faith only. The only means not alone in this case. They don't understand we are also saved from bondage to sin and unrighteousness. So we can do good works. We are forgiven and also freed from this body of sin and death. Resulting in holiness and fruit until everlasting life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 6 hours ago, Wayne222 said: Calvin believe baptism saves. No, Calvin believed that baptism was the NT corollary to circumcision, hence his belief in infant baptism. Calvinism does not teach that baptism is necessary for salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted April 24, 2017 Share Posted April 24, 2017 10 hours ago, JoshuasonFlower said: Do you know the origin of the western Christian doctrine of Imputed Righteousness as you understand it? The Bible teaches it in Romans 4. Just as righteousness was imputed to Abraham on the basis of his faith in the promise of Christ's redeeming work, so it is imputed to us on the basis of our faith in the same redemptive work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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