Should Women Be In Leadership Positions in Church?

[Annette]

I love a number of ministries led by women and know of some amazing women speakers. A friend of mine told me that it is not right for women to have that roll, tries and if they do, they should not be surprised when a man does not respond as the leader may expect. Should it matter whether a man or tries to get a similar message across?

P.S. Thank you guys for your thoughts and input. I am not sure how to answer each of you, but have been reading through what you wrote. Blessings.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Annette
Wanted to add a note to those who have answered

[Churchmouse]

On 4/22/2017 at 10:53 PM, Annette said:

I love a number of ministries led by women, and know of some amazing women speakers. A friend of mine told me that it is not right for women to have that roll,and if they do, they should not be surprised when a man does not respond as the leader may expect. Should it matter whether a man or woman trues to get a similar message across?

Does it matter to God who claims to be that which he has ordained to lead his flock? I say yes. What does the Bible say about such things and what has been the the Tradition begun with Arron. God's laws aren't there to be stylish. They are there for a reason.

Edited April 26, 2017 by Churchmouse

[JohnD]

In another thread I wrote in response to one who found themselves resenting pastors...

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Well...

You probably need to go into ministry.

You see, Christianity has been hijacked by the Roman Empire (which morphed into Roman Catholicism).

This is not your typical Roman Catholic bashing session... so hear me out.

Better put... the Church Organism has been subjugated to the Church Organization.

I cannot find the exact quote, but I once heard the late Dr. J. Vernon McGee say that the devil realized he could not lick the Church, so through Emperor Constantine the devil joined the Church.

Compromise, disarray, false doctrines, and even the structure of clergy / laity confounds the mission of the Body Christian as much as possible.

Now your local Pastor is not the devil incarnate or to blame. Nearly all of them are doing it for the right reasons... but what they are unwittingly doing is perpetuating the hijacking of the Church.

God bless them! They have stepped up to give their lives to what they thought... what they believed with a whole heart... is the LORD's will... when 99.99% of the rest of us could not be bothered even when we learn what the truth on the subject actually is.

In the New Testament / New Covenant we are ALL priests of God.

No division between clergy and laity. That's Old Testament / Old Covenant.

Actually, God intended all in the covenant to be priests even then...

Exodus 19:6 (AV)
6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

But Exodus 32 took place (when the Israelites not only made the calf idol and worshiped it, not only engaged in orgies, but were about to return to Egypt and to blend in with the pagans there undoing everything God had done since the calling out of Abram. That is why his response was so bloody. And the tribe that came to Moses' aid (his own the Levites) became the priestly tribe henceforth and the rest of Israel were (if you will) laity.

But in the New Covenant:

1 Peter 2:3–9 (AV)
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Hearkening back to Exodus 19:6 (a kingdom of priests):

Revelation 1:6 (AV)
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 5:10 (AV)
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

So, don't hate / resent / despise your local preacher... pity them... try to convince them of the truth about what the Bible says.

Most people will not listen to someone who has not been thoroughly indoctrinated / programmed at a denominational seminary.

They just won't.

"Yeah... that's what the Bible says... but because it's coming from you... and not Southwestern Seminary educated... it's not true... or, it will not be received as truth... or regarded..."

Been there too many times.

What it boils down to is placing the authority in the institutions of man rather than the word of God.

I presume you have little to no biblical training. At least not enough to be comfortably in ministry starting tomorrow...

Get trained / educated by the Holy Spirit.

I am not saying you cannot get any good teaching from anyone else... but be sure to filter all things through the word of God.

2Peter 1:20-21

1Thessalonians 5:21

1John 4:1

Acts 17:11

2Timothy 3:16-17

Deuteronomy 29:29

Proverbs 25:2

Deuteronomy 4:2

Deuteronomy 12:32

Proverbs 30:5-6

Revelation 22:18-19

John 3:16-18 / Ephesians 2:8-10 / Galatians 3:24-28 / Romans 7:14-8:39 / 1John 1:5-2:17

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What I will now add is that anyone who has the slightest qualm about women pastors / teachers / leaders needs to step up into ministry themselves!

I used to argue against women in authority in the Church (actually women usurping the authority of men in the Church) with airtight scriptural arguments that went into Greek and Hebrew and new and old testament texts and examples. And I bludgeoned female pastors every chance I got with those arguments. 

Then one day the Spirit asked me (not in words exactly) "So it's better, then, that the Gospel does not get out at all than a woman should preach it?"

I was completely undone.

And I repented on the spot.

Every time (for whatever reason) men did not step up, God filled the void with a woman. From the Prophetess Deborah to Pastor Jane today. 

IF all of us who are priests of God and called to be pastors and teachers and leaders (not all are called to these positions but all are priests) but if the quota was even 50% (being conservative here) there might be a biblical case against women usurping the authority of men... but we are woefully short of 50% people! 

I would be shocked if we had 1% of all who are called to this ministry who actually heard  the call and stepped up.

Less than 1%.

So should women preach / teach / lead?

Absotively!

And God bless them!

 

[Guest BacKaran]

So it's better, then, that the Gospel does not get out at all than a woman should preach it?

The devil loves to raise doubts doesn't he?

I don't think that was the holy Spirit talking to you in mho.

 

 

[JohnD]

3 hours ago, BacKaran said:

So it's better, then, that the Gospel does not get out at all than a woman should preach it?

The devil loves to raise doubts doesn't he?

I don't think that was the holy Spirit talking to you in mho.

 

 

So your answer to the question is...?

[JohnD]

Point well taken.

It "could be" the devil trying to confuse the issue.

That's what 1 John 4:1 is all about.

And we test the spirits by scripture.

Now in Judges 4 when God needed a man to step up to prophecy... none did. That mantle fell on Deborah. The man in charge (Barak) wouldn't even go into battle unless Deborah went with the troops. And it was a female (Jael) who killed the arch enemy of Israel Sisera. 

I guess God goofed letting women run the show like that.

When the men were too afraid or too rattled by the crucifixion women went to the tomb and discovered the Lord Jesus raised from the dead.

Shame they couldn't tell anyone... it might be construed as women teaching men.

I could go on, but I tried to make this point initially that when men do not or will not step up then... God has used women to do the job (and to shame the men who refused to).

 

[JohnD]

Again, I USED TO argue the opposite from the Prophetess Deborah to the Spirit of Jezebel in Revelation...

And in a world or even a Church where men stepped up to the ministry that should (in this covenant of the priesthood of all believers), the arguments would all stand based (if nothing else on 1 Timothy 2 where Paul eludes to the progenitors of the human race making the application universal).

But we are not in this world or this Church and the Gospel Message must get out to every creature under heaven (must it not?)...

 

[missmuffet]

The Bible tells us that women should not be Pastors. Although they can take a teaching roll in the Church. 1 Timothy 2:11-14

[JohnD]

I used to exclude from this group of necessary women preachers those women who were in it to be in your face... feminist agenda... or personal grandeur...

but then I realized there are a lot of men in the ministry for the wrong reasons too. The Apostle Paul answered this "What does it matter? So long as Christ is preached?'"

Philippians 1:12–18 (AV)
12 But I would ye should understand, brethren, that the things which happened unto me have fallen out rather unto the furtherance of the gospel;
13 So that my bonds in Christ are manifest in all the palace, and in all other places;
14 And many of the brethren in the Lord, waxing confident by my bonds, are much more bold to speak the word without fear.
15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:
16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:
17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.
18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.

If they get the Christ, the Spirit, and the Gospel correct, then what does it matter?

[JohnD]

Just now, missmuffet said:

The Bible tells us that women should not be Pastors. Although they can take a teaching roll in the Church.

Correct. I believe the Bible interprets it that women can teach other women and children of both genders (til the males reach adulthood).

But that's when there is not a drastic shortage of male pastors / teachers.

My point and premise is that we in the Body Christian are all priests of God but we:

1. don't want the burden of the ministry

2. belong to congregations / denominations that stymie the evangelism of the lost through false doctrines like the division of clergy / laity

3. most Christians are very happy with it this way because of #1 and we want to be worldly