Neighbor Posted May 1, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 963 Topics Per Day: 0.35 Content Count: 13,740 Content Per Day: 5.04 Reputation: 9,124 Days Won: 6 Joined: 12/04/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/03/1885 Share Posted May 1, 2017 (edited) 11 minutes ago, missmuffet said: What do you think about this statement? seriously ( unlike my previous posting): I will open the door for that woman ( An immodest one) same as any. I may have to cast my eyes aside. I will stand when she enters the room. I will show her respect that I should have and display for all women. For God created each of them; HOWEVER there is attire that screams do not respect me, I don't even respect myself. For that woman I hope I remember her pain, and pray for her well being. Edited May 1, 2017 by Neighbor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted May 1, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 165 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 1.55 Reputation: 2,607 Days Won: 15 Joined: 04/29/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 1, 2017 Modesty is double edge sword. On one hand, the spectators are responsible, "I made a covenant with my eyes not to look lustfully at a young woman," (Job 31:1) and the person wearing the outfits is responsible, "Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother or sister to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause them to fall." (1 Corinthians 8:13). While Paul's words are about food, they can be applied to anything such as alchole and what we wear and so forth. The balance is difficult, we don't want Hijabs/Burkas and Nun outfits on everyone like Puritans, but we also don't want to wear something that draws attention to something that will make someone stumble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 2 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said: Modesty is double edge sword. On one hand, the spectators are responsible, "I made a covenant with my eyes not to look lustfully at a young woman," (Job 31:1) and the person wearing the outfits is responsible, "Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother or sister to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause them to fall." (1 Corinthians 8:13). While Paul's words are about food, they can be applied to anything such as alchole and what we wear and so forth. The balance is difficult, we don't want Hijabs/Burkas and Nun outfits on everyone like Puritans, but we also don't want to wear something that draws attention to something that will make someone stumble. I think everyone knows what modesty means, don't you? I mean, most intelligent people, whether they are believers or not, understand the basic concept of modesty and what modest attire looks like. No one is thinking of how the Amish, or Nuns dress, nor are they thinking of burkas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted May 1, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 165 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 1.55 Reputation: 2,607 Days Won: 15 Joined: 04/29/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 1, 2017 2 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: I think everyone knows what modesty means, don't you? I mean, most intelligent people, whether they are believers or not, understand the basic concept of modesty and what modest attire looks like. No one is thinking of how the Amish, or Nuns dress, nor are they thinking of burkas. You missed my point. Islam's answer to modesty is Burkas/Hijab, and the Church once used Puritanical clothing. I am urging caution to not swing to far into a modesty that is excessive to fix the problem. Granted you say that is obvious, no one wants this, but what's the alternative? If you want freedom, people can dress how they want long as it doesn't break the laws of the land. If you want dress codes, you just violated people's freedom. Its not clear cut answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted May 1, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.08 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted May 1, 2017 5 hours ago, LadyKay said: Then I vote for skinny dipping! But anyway. I wear a one piece when I swim and I have serious doubts any man seeing me in it is lusting after me. I only wish I join this debate sooner. I think I have lots to say on this one. The one piece is back in style, LK, check out the internet. Don't think that men won't look at you....they will whether you want them to or not. And no skinny dipping Miss LK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 1 minute ago, Fidei Defensor said: You missed my point. Islam's answer to modesty is Burkas/Hijab, and the Church once used Puritanical clothing. I am urging caution to not swing to far into a modesty that is excessive to fix the problem. Granted you say that is obvious, no one wants this, but what's the alternative? If you want freedom, people can dress how they want long as it doesn't break the laws of the land. If you want dress codes, you just violated people's freedom. Its not clear cut answer. I don't think I missed the point at all. When we talk about modesty, most people have regular, non-revealing clothing in mind. So I think that is the alternative. I don't think people swing to the extremes, by-in-large. Most intelligent people are pretty much on the same page when it comes to modesty. You will always have those on the fringe who go to extremes. I don't think we need dress codes, per se. But we do need to enforce limits on what is and is not appropriate for a Church setting in terms of modest dress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 When speaking of modesty, it is also important to point out that modesty is an attitude. Immodesty will show up in everything. Likewise those who have a modest attitude, such as described in I Peter. 3:3-5, will dress accordingly. Modesty is a godly attribute, when you think about it. It falls in line with humility and temperance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted May 2, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 165 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,997 Content Per Day: 1.55 Reputation: 2,607 Days Won: 15 Joined: 04/29/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted May 2, 2017 6 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: I don't think I missed the point at all. When we talk about modesty, most people have regular, non-revealing clothing in mind. So I think that is the alternative. I don't think people swing to the extremes, by-in-large. Most intelligent people are pretty much on the same page when it comes to modesty. You will always have those on the fringe who go to extremes. I don't think we need dress codes, per se. But we do need to enforce limits on what is and is not appropriate for a Church setting in terms of modest dress. I find the words "most intelligent people" has a very demeaning quality to it. So almost 80% religions which believe modesty must be enforced with strict clothing as not intelligent? The fact is they haven't found a great solution to the problem of modesty (title C.S. Lewis probably would have given a book on subject). As aforementioned, I am saying a good alternative is needed, but the extreme response to cover up to excess like a nun is what people end up doing, because the regular clothing you describe as ideal is not agreed upon by many. There are people who want to stretch it one way or the other, and yes clothing stores have what you might call regular, but there people who wear jeans without belts to reveal underwear, there are women who buy v neck shirts to show their bosoms and so forth. Who gets to decide what's regular? That's the big question. If we are all allowed our individual concept of modesty (hello post-modernism) then you are going to run into people who wear some really revealing outfits, but if there is a council or board of Clothing for the country, then you are living under a sort of totalitarianism. Neither is a great answer, and still how to define, agree upon, and then institute modesty is a headache. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running Gator Posted May 2, 2017 Group: Royal Member * Followers: 8 Topic Count: 91 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 10,596 Content Per Day: 3.66 Reputation: 2,743 Days Won: 25 Joined: 06/16/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted May 2, 2017 16 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: I think everyone knows what modesty means, don't you? I mean, most intelligent people, whether they are believers or not, understand the basic concept of modesty and what modest attire looks like. No one is thinking of how the Amish, or Nuns dress, nor are they thinking of burkas. If you took 100 people of varying ages and from different parts of the country and asked them their opinion of modest attire you would get 30 or 40 different versions of what modest dress is. also, why not think of the Amish? In their opinion most dress is immodest, why not use their standard? What makes your standard more Godly than theirs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Running Gator Posted May 2, 2017 Group: Royal Member * Followers: 8 Topic Count: 91 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 10,596 Content Per Day: 3.66 Reputation: 2,743 Days Won: 25 Joined: 06/16/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted May 2, 2017 1 minute ago, Fidei Defensor said: I find the words "most intelligent people" has a very demeaning quality to it. That was the point of the comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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