Respect for Those in Authority

[Annette]

As I read the story about the messenger coming to David, with news of Saul's death, his response amazes me. It is no secret that Saul had made David's life miserable. And yet even when David had a chance to kill Saul, he did not because of the position Saul had. Its not every day that the man you are hiding from, seeks refuge in the same cave as you?

In fact, David was so upset by the news and what happened, that he had the man who killed Saul killed!  This, regardless of the fact that Saul had asked for it to be done. 

Bringing this back to life today, I can't help but think how different life would be if more people held people in esteem, not because of who they are but because of the position that they hold.

Do you think that the fact that he learned of Jonathan's death, this added to his anger?

Edited May 10, 2017 by Annette
Changed wording

[Guest]

You can respect the life of another human being, but not because they are in authority. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. When men and women become world leaders, they demand our respect and homage. I demand their bio, references, extensive background check, mental health assessment including Hare's check list for psychopathy, employment history, and first born son (joke). We respect leaders foolishly, their humanity yes, their power no. Look at Hitler...people idolized him and he butchered 12 million. Don't get caught up in this respecting authority nonsense. You are deserving of respect when you respect others underneath you.

[Neighbor]

8 hours ago, Annette said:

As I read the story about the messenger coming to David, with news of Saul's death, his response amazes me. It is no secret that Saul had made David's life miserable. And yet even when David had a chance to kill Saul, he did not because of the position Saul had. Its not every day that the man you are hiding from, seeks refuge in the same cave as you?

In fact, David was so upset by the news and what happened, that he had the man who killed Saul killed!  This, regardless of the fact that Saul had asked for it to be done. 

Bringing this back to life today, I can't help but think how different life would be if more people held people in esteem, not because of who they are but because of the position that they hold.

Do you think that the fact that he learned of Jonathan's death, this added to his anger?

Anger? Added?  Maybe something else- David had one of the enemy killed, one that knew the details of the deaths and was the killer of one. If I understand, David  had that man killed so that he would not be known at the time, nor exalted among the enemies of David now to become king. The enemies of Israel had killed an anointed one of God.  David lamented deeply, but I'm not sure anger is the motive for his ordering the killing of the man that assisted the suicide of a presumably dying Saul. (And perhaps Saul would have lived without this man being willing to dispatch him onto death).

I don't know that anger is at play in the motives of David, not as much as protection  of Judah and the beginning of his being exalted first as sovereign over Judah, later all the united house of Israel. The ordering of the killing may have been more his defense of  his people  from their enemies. Having that man killed so that  the enemy may not have  the motivating knowledge to rally them in celebration and gain advantage of momentum through such a rallying celebration. 

 

 The above is not a fully developed thought of this morning,  It is my own question in my mind, for my own thought and later study- So thanks for another topical study  to come! I already have been led  as result of your suggestion as to motivation to  a sermon of my favorite - Charles Haddon Spurgeon this morning. I love it, Spurgeon at Three AM what a life! LOL

 But now, I am  about to be late to my own duties, and  earning of my keep. So I will later enjoy the  expressions on the subject by others from throughout the day. -And do my own reading too.

BUT it is a fascinating look into  the windings of God's sovereignty over all matters isn't it?

David's Lament for Saul and Jonathan

 And David lamented with this lamentation over Saul and Jonathan his son, and he said it should be taught to the people of Judah; behold, it is written in the Book of Jashar. He said:

 “Your glory, O Israel, is slain on your high places!
    How the mighty have fallen!
 Tell it not in Gath,
    publish it not in the streets of Ashkelon,
lest the daughters of the Philistines rejoice,
    lest the daughters of the uncircumcised exult.

 “You mountains of Gilboa,
    let there be no dew or rain upon you,
    nor fields of offerings!
For there the shield of the mighty was defiled,
    the shield of Saul, not anointed with oil.

 “From the blood of the slain,
    from the fat of the mighty,
the bow of Jonathan turned not back,
    and the sword of Saul returned not empty.

 “Saul and Jonathan, beloved and lovely!
    In life and in death they were not divided;
they were swifter than eagles;
    they were stronger than lions.

 “You daughters of Israel, weep over Saul,
    who clothed you luxuriously in scarlet,
    who put ornaments of gold on your apparel.

 “How the mighty have fallen
    in the midst of the battle!

“Jonathan lies slain on your high places.
     I am distressed for you, my brother Jonathan;
very pleasant have you been to me;
    your love to me was extraordinary,
    surpassing the love of women.

 “How the mighty have fallen,
    and the weapons of war perished!”

 

[Annette]

11 hours ago, Yowm said:

People should be respectable of people seeing all are made in God's image.

Double respect for those in authority as Saul was over David.

Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.
(Rom 13:7)
 

 

Thank you Yowm. It is great reading what other people think about a topic, as well gain additional thoughts and information. Blessings.

 

[Annette]

4 hours ago, Allroses48 said:

You can respect the life of another human being, but not because they are in authority. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. When men and women become world leaders, they demand our respect and homage. I demand their bio, references, extensive background check, mental health assessment including Hare's check list for psychopathy, employment history, and first born son (joke). We respect leaders foolishly, their humanity yes, their power no. Look at Hitler...people idolized him and he butchered 12 million. Don't get caught up in this respecting authority nonsense. You are deserving of respect when you respect others underneath you.

 

An interesting take Allroses48, thanks for sharing your thoughts. 

[Annette]

2 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Anger? Added?  Maybe something else- David had one of the enemy killed, one that knew the details of the deaths and was the killer of one. If I understand, David  had that man killed so that he would not be known at the time, nor exalted among the enemies of David now to become king. The enemies of Israel had killed an anointed one of God.  David lamented deeply, but I'm not sure anger is the motive for his ordering the killing of the man that assisted the suicide of a presumably dying Saul. (And perhaps Saul would have lived without this man being willing to dispatch him onto death).

I don't know that anger is at play in the motives of David, not as much as protection  of Judah and the beginning of his being exalted first as sovereign over Judah, later all the united house of Israel. The ordering of the killing may have been more his defense of  his people  from their enemies. Having that man killed so that  the enemy may not have  the motivating knowledge to rally them in celebration and gain advantage of momentum through such a rallying celebration. 

 

 The above is not a fully developed thought of this morning,  It is my own question in my mind, for my own thought and later study- So thanks for another topical study  to come! I already have been led  as result of your suggestion as to motivation to  a sermon of my favorite - Charles Haddon Spurgeon this morning. I love it, Spurgeon at Three AM what a life! LOL

 But now, I am  about to be late to my own duties, and  earning of my keep. So I will later enjoy the  expressions on the subject by others from throughout the day. -And do my own reading too.

BUT it is a fascinating look into  the windings of God's sovereignty over all matters isn't it?

David's Lament for Saul and Jonathan

 And David lamented with this lamentation over Saul and Jonathan his son, and he said it should be taught to the people of Judah; behold, it is written in the Book of Jashar. He said:

 “Your glory, O Israel, is slain on your high places!
    How the mighty have fallen!
 Tell it not in Gath,
    publish it not in the streets of Ashkelon,
lest the daughters of the Philistines rejoice,
    lest the daughters of the uncircumcised exult.

 “You mountains of Gilboa,
    let there be no dew or rain upon you,
    nor fields of offerings!
For there the shield of the mighty was defiled,
    the shield of Saul, not anointed with oil.

 “From the blood of the slain,
    from the fat of the mighty,
the bow of Jonathan turned not back,
    and the sword of Saul returned not empty.

 “Saul and Jonathan, beloved and lovely!
    In life and in death they were not divided;
they were swifter than eagles;
    they were stronger than lions.

 “You daughters of Israel, weep over Saul,
    who clothed you luxuriously in scarlet,
    who put ornaments of gold on your apparel.

 “How the mighty have fallen
    in the midst of the battle!

“Jonathan lies slain on your high places.
     I am distressed for you, my brother Jonathan;
very pleasant have you been to me;
    your love to me was extraordinary,
    surpassing the love of women.

 “How the mighty have fallen,
    and the weapons of war perished!”

 

 

Thank you, Neighbor, I appreciate the thoughtfulness that you have put into your answer. The topic was something that I thought about throughout the day yesterday. So, I figured that I may as well throw the idea out there, and see if anyone else has any thoughts or comments on the idea.

I hope that Spurgeon at three in the morning did not affect your ability to stay alert for work. 

For the first time, I am reading the Bible through in Chronological order and am loving it. I wish I had done it sooner. It has been interesting to see for example which Psalms are connected to which story. 

I look forward to hearing more of your thoughts.

Blessings.

 

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, Annette said:

An interesting take Allroses48, thanks for sharing your thoughts. 

What's interesting about it, or is that a polite way of saying you disagree and are dismissing everything I said? I worked with what I can only call evil people in authority, who because of their power they were able to create horrific harm to innocent people. I'm talking about child rape victims perpetrators not going to trial because they were bought off, kids getting killed because no one wanted to touch the çase, and other innocent lives getting destroyed. You wrote one offhanded dismissive sentence yet you type an entire dialogue for the other guy that probably has never come face to face with real evil in authority. How am I supposed to respect someone who turns their head on criminal behavior. Nice dialogue. Thanks! Next time don't bother responding  if all you can be is dismissive.

[da_man1974]

5 hours ago, Allroses48 said:

You can respect the life of another human being, but not because they are in authority. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. When men and women become world leaders, they demand our respect and homage. I demand their bio, references, extensive background check, mental health assessment including Hare's check list for psychopathy, employment history, and first born son (joke). We respect leaders foolishly, their humanity yes, their power no. Look at Hitler...people idolized him and he butchered 12 million. Don't get caught up in this respecting authority nonsense. You are deserving of respect when you respect others underneath you.

You don't have to respect the person but you do have to respect their position.  If your boss has had multiple jobs and committed adultery and has a questionable mental health background are you gonna so no to him when he asks you to file some papers?  I think it ties in with don't hate the sinner, hate the sin.  We all know that people in authority are not like Mother Theresa but that does not give us grounds to not respect their authority.

It isn't world leaders that demand our respect.  They may try.  But the Bible is what tells us we need to respect those in authority.

[da_man1974]

4 minutes ago, Yowm said:

I'll admit, those words were fairly easy writing but I had great angst in respecting Obama while he was president.

You and me both.  

[Neighbor]

2 hours ago, Annette said:

Thank you, Neighbor, I appreciate the thoughtfulness that you have put into your answer. The topic was something that I thought about throughout the day yesterday. So, I figured that I may as well throw the idea out there, and see if anyone else has any thoughts or comments on the idea.

I hope that Spurgeon at three in the morning did not affect your ability to stay alert for work. 

For the first time, I am reading the Bible through in Chronological order and am loving it. I wish I had done it sooner. It has been interesting to see for example which Psalms are connected to which story. 

I look forward to hearing more of your thoughts.

Blessings.

 

And thank you. Reading through Chronologically eh- as in starting with Job perhaps the oldest written record or actually chronologically as best as can be determined by events and by writers?  Or  Just reading through the entire Bible as Canonically arranged generally Genesis through to Revelation? In any case a grand undertaking, congratulations for even starting. May God's Holy Spirt,  and your's, see you through. Please start some threads here as you go along in your reading!

 I do have "The Life and Times Historical Reference Bible, a Chronological Journey Through The Bible, Culture, and History", NKJV -Nelson  Publishers. I reference it, have tried once to just read it through. Found myself in over my head  and abandoned the project, but would really like to go for it again. 

So as you read maybe you can find encouragement for the rest of us to jin in at least in part.

 

Thanks again for this thread.

 

Edited May 10, 2017 by Neighbor