Ecumenism: "Why Can't We Be Friends?"

[Willa]

33 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Ecumenicism isn't about unity.  It is about conformity.  It is about falling in line with the collective and sacrificing any doctrine that needs to be sacrificed to get along.    It's more emotional than it is biblical.   Ecumenicism is ultimately about creating a one-world religion.

I so agree that the word leaves a bad taste in most of our mouths.  It is about dead churches with declining numbers saving face by merging with other dead churches.  Some are all about the pride of numbers in attendance.  They don't believe in much anymore so it is no problem discarding their creeds and confessions. 

But I don't believe that is what the OP is about.  It is about coming together in a spirit of concord and embracing the things we hold in common.  We can respect each other as long as we adhere to Scripture without compromising basic beliefs.  I don't think many of us will change our uniqueness of our identity, but we can agree on the things we hold in common and agree to disagree on the rest.

Eph 4:1  I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called, Eph 4:2  with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love, Eph 4:3  endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. Eph 4:4  There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; Eph 4:5  one Lord, one faith, one baptism; Eph 4:6  one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

[Guest shiloh357]

5 minutes ago, Willa said:

I so agree that the word leaves a bad taste in most of our mouths.  It is about dead churches with declining numbers saving face by merging with other dead churches.  Some are all about the pride of numbers in attendance.  They don't believe in much anymore so it is no problem discarding their creeds and confessions. 

But I don't believe that is what the OP is about.

Yes, the OP is misusing the word.

[Your closest friendnt]

9 hours ago, Giller said:

Eph 2:8-9
(8)  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(9)  Not of works, lest any man should boast.
 

Of course it is by grace through faith, in the finished work of the cross, you are saved, but in being saved, God leads you to obedience to his word, and it says that we are sanctified by his word, and being changed by his word.

Eph 5:26-27
(26)  That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
(27)  That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
 

And of course we get built up by the word.

Rom 10:17
(17)  So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
 

And it says to continue in his word.

Joh 8:31
(31)  Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

And of course Jesus is the word.

Now in saying this, the gospel has absolutely nothing to do, with any denomination, and even though there are some that are saved in denominational circles, denominations was never God's intent, the forming of a body was always God's intent.

Catholicism is the whore of Revelation, and God says absolutely nothing good about the whore, so why would I join myself to a spiritual whore?

I know these might be strong words, but it is true.

And God does not want us to build upon something that is man made, all denominations are man made, whether it be Brethren , Pentecostal, Baptist etc.

It is not about reviving something God wants dead, it is not about elevating man made things, it is about elevating God to his rightful position, the gospel is not about man, it is about God , the one who can save man.

God wants a body, and he wants this or that body to build themselves on the foundation which is Christ Jesus, and he wants no other foundation laid.
 

I need to understand something, I read in one of the books in the OT, that the Lord God, said to his prophet , " Go and marry the prostitute and have a son with her, and he did. 

What is this all about? 

Is it God speaking to the prophet? 

[Your closest friendnt]

9 hours ago, Giller said:

Eph 2:8-9
(8)  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(9)  Not of works, lest any man should boast.
 

Of course it is by grace through faith, in the finished work of the cross, you are saved, but in being saved, God leads you to obedience to his word, and it says that we are sanctified by his word, and being changed by his word.

Eph 5:26-27
(26)  That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
(27)  That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
 

And of course we get built up by the word.

Rom 10:17
(17)  So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
 

And it says to continue in his word.

Joh 8:31
(31)  Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

And of course Jesus is the word.

Now in saying this, the gospel has absolutely nothing to do, with any denomination, and even though there are some that are saved in denominational circles, denominations was never God's intent, the forming of a body was always God's intent.

Catholicism is the whore of Revelation, and God says absolutely nothing good about the whore, so why would I join myself to a spiritual whore?

I know these might be strong words, but it is true.

And God does not want us to build upon something that is man made, all denominations are man made, whether it be Brethren , Pentecostal, Baptist etc.

It is not about reviving something God wants dead, it is not about elevating man made things, it is about elevating God to his rightful position, the gospel is not about man, it is about God , the one who can save man.

God wants a body, and he wants this or that body to build themselves on the foundation which is Christ Jesus, and he wants no other foundation laid.
 

Who is a Christian? 

[warrior12]

The Bible says to buy Truth and do not sell it, PROVERBS 23:23.           So now, i am reading my Bible and with God's grace, i understand what i understand and try to educate and learn more.  When untruths come plying its trade and doctrines that are not inclusive of what i read are perpetuated, what i am to do.  Just can't sit back and say um, this is a part that i don't believe and forget it.  No, the Bible also said have nothing to do with the unfruitful works of darkness, but by contrast expose them.   As i said before, we can have barbecue, play sports, joke with one another and others, but worship must be in accordance with what is written in the word and if other doctrines are being portrayed as the gospel, then a divide occurs there. No compromise. 

Ephesians 5     King James Version (KJV)

¹ And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

[Fidei Defensor]

8 hours ago, Judas Machabeus said:

Lol, every time I see a Protestant use that term I crack a smile. I think the same way. 

Funny story:

my fiancé was Protestant, and during that time when ever we fought I would go to confession and repent. Sometimes my penance would be to make her a special dinner along with some prayer and scriputre reading. 

So one time during a fight she says to me "You better go talk to Father about this, I'm likely to get another dinner"

I quickly retorted "Hey!! I think there's canon law against Protestants using Priests against us!!" 

Needles to say the fight ended right there and we had a good chuckle.

 

Hahaha! That's so funny. She was benefiting off your penance. Protestant women better not learn this my friend, or else all Catholic men will find themselves engaged to Protestant women expecting penitential dinners.   XD

[Fidei Defensor]

"Speak unity and you discover how great the division is, speak truth discover how much error there is, speak love and find out how cold love has become." (Anonymous).

My greatest fear as Protestant is becoming a Pharisee. Knowing the Bible as perfect as the Pharisees knew their Law, and yet they missed Jesus. The Pharisees missed Jesus because they missed the heart and point of Law, just as often we Christians miss the heart of Scriptures. Jesus told us a time would come when, "And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold:" (Matthew 24:12): "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside, but on the inside are full of dead men’s bones and every impurity Outwardly you look like righteous people, but inwardly your hearts are filled with hypocrisy and lawlessness,:" (Matthew 23:37-38), "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. ²² On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ ²³ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness;" (Matthew 7:21-23), "Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers, ² not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. ³ Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,^{[c] 4} who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. ⁵ Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? ⁶ And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. ⁷ For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. ⁸ And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. ⁹ The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, ¹⁰ and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. ¹¹ Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, ¹² in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness." (2 Thessalonians 2:1-10). This lawlessness is dangerous, no matter how pious you may seem or how learned you are. For to follow the Law is to do as Jesus said, "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” ³⁷ And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. ³⁸ This is the great and first commandment. ³⁹ And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. ⁴⁰ On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.” (Matthew 22:36-40). The lawlessness is to not love God and to stop loving our neighbor or our brother in Christ, "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. ³⁵ By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.” (John 13:34-35). Jesus rebukes a Church in Revelation for refusing to love as they first did, ""But I have this complaint against you. You don't love me or each other as you did at first!Look how far you have fallen! Turn back to me and do the works you did at first. If you don't repent, I will come and remove your lampstand from its place among the churches." (Revelation 2:4-5 NLT).

The lawlessness is already at work (2 Thessalonians 2:7) and it was already at work in the Pharisees that crucified Jesus (John 19). But love is different, notice Jesus said, "Lawlessness increases, and love grows cold," (Matthew 24:12) because Lawfulnesss is to love God with all you are and to love your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:36-40). A Catholic is your neighbor, a Methodist is your neighbor, even an Athiest and fallen away person is your neighbor. You are told to love them, and love is patient not overbearing, "Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant ⁵ or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful;^{[a] 6} it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. ⁷ Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things, Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away." (1 Corinthians 13:4-8). Hence why Paul who was Pharisee of Pharisees (see Acts 23:6, Philippians 3:5, the Pharisees are the lawless ones Jesus rebuked, religious but not loving), said this, "1If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a ringing gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing." (1 Corinthians 13:1-3). Paul rejected his old Phariseeism, and instead promoted the Love of Christ (Matthew 22:36-40) and he wrote, "love is patient, love is kind.." (1 Corinthians 13:4). We need to be patient with other believers and be kind to our many different brothers in Christ, Catholics, Charismatics, and the like. To quote a Roman Catholic, "The teaching of Christ is more excellent than all the advice of the saints, and he who has His spirit will find in it a hidden manna. Now, there are many who hear the Gospel often but care little for it because they have not the spirit of Christ. Yet whoever wishes to understand fully the words of Christ must try to pattern his whole life on that of Christ. What good does it do to speak learnedly about the Trinity if, lacking humility, you displease the Trinity? Indeed it is not learning that makes a man holy and just, but a virtuous life makes him pleasing to God. I would rather feel contrition than know how to define it. For what would it profit us to know the whole Bible by heart and the principles of all the philosophers if we live without grace and the love of God? Vanity of vanities and all is vanity, except to love God and serve Him alone." (Thomas A Kempis, The Imitation of Christ, Book I, Chapter One).

I am not saying to abandon reading the Holy Bible and New Testament. On the contrary I am saying we should heed the words therein, that we memorize Scripture and put it into practice; that we learn the heart of what Jesus and His Apostles wrote and said. I believe Holy Bible is breathed by God (2 Timothy 3:16) and is best way to check all theology, doxology, and more. But we must beware of only become scholars of God's word, and not actually doing what it says, and letting love of God show through us. I pray that no one become Pharisee, for they missed the Prince of Peace and had been purged of God's love. Lord don't let me become a Pharisee. Help me to know you Jesus and not just about you, help me to practice your Scriptures and commands not just recite them. Help me to show your love always. Amen

[Your closest friendnt]

59 minutes ago, Giller said:

They who have received Christ as the Lord and savior of their lives, in a genuine way, are Christians, and then afterwards God begins his sanctifying work in us, and every body is at a different place of growth in Christ, but once God reveals a truth of his word, we must obey what he says.

God is patient with us, but nevertheless we must stand on what he is for, and denominations are not of God, irregardless to someone being saved or not, God did not come for that reason, but rather he came to save sinners, and then form a body.

You took a lot of time and appreciate what you did.  I read the Bible and I don't see that anyone of the disciples explain it the same way. 

Can you support that the disciples of JESUS CHRIST gave the same message or about the same message. 

Hope that you don't mind me asking these questions. 

Would you like to try again in a way that I can see it in the Bible, when the disciples preached the Gospel. 

 

[Fidei Defensor]

41 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

You took a lot of time and appreciate what you did.  I read the Bible and I don't see that anyone of the disciples explain it the same way. 

Can you support that the disciples of JESUS CHRIST gave the same message or about the same message. 

Hope that you don't mind me asking these questions. 

Would you like to try again in a way that I can see it in the Bible, when the disciples preached the Gospel. 

 

I think best case is that the Apostle Paul went to check if His message and Gospel was same as Peter's and James. Please Pardon the Length:

Galatians 1, ESV

"Paul, an apostle—not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead— ² and all the brothers^[a] who are with me,

To the churches of Galatia:

³ Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, ⁴ who gave himself for our sins to deliver us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, ⁵ to whom be the glory forever and ever. Amen.

No Other Gospel

⁶ I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— ⁷ not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. ⁸ But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. ⁹ As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.

¹⁰ For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant^[b] of Christ.

Paul Called by God

¹¹ For I would have you know, brothers, that the gospel that was preached by me is not man's gospel.^{[c] 12} For I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ. ¹³ For you have heard of my former life in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God violently and tried to destroy it. ¹⁴ And I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people, so extremely zealous was I for the traditions of my fathers. ¹⁵ But when he who had set me apart before I was born,^[d] and who called me by his grace, ¹⁶ was pleased to reveal his Son to^[e] me, in order that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately consult with anyone;^{[f] 17} nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me, but I went away into Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.

¹⁸ Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas and remained with him fifteen days. ¹⁹ But I saw none of the other apostles except James the Lord's brother. ²⁰ (In what I am writing to you, before God, I do not lie!) ²¹ Then I went into the regions of Syria and Cilicia. ²² And I was still unknown in person to the churches of Judea that are in Christ. ²³ They only were hearing it said, “He who used to persecute us is now preaching the faith he once tried to destroy.” ²⁴ And they glorified God because of me." (Galatians 1:1-23).

Galatians 2 English Standard Version (ESV)

Paul Accepted by the Apostles

2 Then after fourteen years I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, taking Titus along with me. ² I went up because of a revelation and set before them (though privately before those who seemed influential) the gospel that I proclaim among the Gentiles, in order to make sure I was not running or had not run in vain. ³ But even Titus, who was with me, was not forced to be circumcised, though he was a Greek. ⁴ Yet because of false brothers secretly brought in—who slipped in to spy out our freedom that we have in Christ Jesus, so that they might bring us into slavery— ⁵ to them we did not yield in submission even for a moment, so that the truth of the gospel might be preserved for you. ⁶ And from those who seemed to be influential (what they were makes no difference to me; God shows no partiality)—those, I say, who seemed influential added nothing to me. ⁷ On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised ⁸ (for he who worked through Peter for his apostolic ministry to the circumcised worked also through me for mine to the Gentiles), ⁹ and when James and Cephas and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given to me, they gave the right hand of fellowship to Barnabas and me, that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised. ¹⁰ Only, they asked us to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do.

Paul Opposes Peter

¹¹ But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. ¹² For before certain men came from James, he was eating with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party.^{[a] 13} And the rest of the Jews acted hypocritically along with him, so that even Barnabas was led astray by their hypocrisy. ¹⁴ But when I saw that their conduct was not in step with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, “If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you force the Gentiles to live like Jews?”

Justified by Faith

¹⁵ We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; ¹⁶ yet we know that a person is not justified^[b] by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

¹⁷ But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! ¹⁸ For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. ¹⁹ For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. ²⁰ I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. ²¹ I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness^[c] were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose."

Here the Church seem unamoymous, but then Peter sided the Jerusalem Church who kept the food laws and alienated the Gentile Christinas. The First Schism? Hmm.

[Happinessity]

11 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

Yes, the OP is misusing the word.

How so?