misogyny

[Spock]

2 hours ago, Davida said:

Can you reprove me with scripture then?

Not repeating myself, davida. This thread and the woman's thread several weeks ago have given you our scriptural position, so no need to be a broken record. 

If I may be so bold, I wish you would please slowwwwww down and read our posts instead of being so quick to respond. I don't think you have gotten any of my posts today because you are so hectic to crank out a rebuttal. You are not addressing the specific points being made. 

One last time- my point today is that people have and are still guilty of taking a verse or two from the word out of context and use it to support WHAT THEY WANT IT TO SAY.  I cited the bigoted racists of the 1800s who did just that, when they justified their right to slavery by quoting guess who? Paul from his LETTERS. (I wonder if Paul ever thought all of his LETTERS would end up being scripture read everyday for thousands of years by every Christian  on an equal plane with the Gospels, Acts, Hebrews, and Revelation?  Philemon who?  Just a thought.)  

Because of this, I encourage a TOTAL examination of the entire word as a better  way to support a doctrine.  What does God say about roles of women from Genesis to Revelation, not just a few verses from the same guy who is writing a specific LETTER to a specific person or a specific church. I also encourage the use of COMMON SENSE too, which means you might have to exam context and culture.

people do that all the time, davida.  For example, how many Christians  have erased the 4th commandment from their  Bible and some have even done away with all 10 commandments saying they only apply to a person of Jewish persuasion.  Why did they do that?  I'm sure Context and culture came into play along with perhaps a few other factors like keeping traditions.

In your rebuttal, please stick to what is being said IN THIS POST ONLY.  This way we could build on what the other one is saying. No need to repeat yourself and cite 1 Timothy 2 again.  We got it. Tell me what, if anything, you disagree from this post and why?

Thanks,

paul

Edited May 17, 2017 by Spock

[Spock]

Matthew 9

The Workers Are Few

35Jesus went through all the towns and villages, teaching in their synagogues, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom and healing every disease and sickness. 36When he saw the crowds, he had compassion on them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd. 37Then he said to his disciples, “The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few. 38Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field.”

Spock thoughts: Had Jesus said, "send out male workers into his harvest field ". I might be thinking a bit differently. 

[Wolf Bridges]

16 minutes ago, Spock said:

Matthew 9

The Workers Are Few

35Jesus went through all the towns and villages, teaching in their synagogues, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom and healing every disease and sickness. 36When he saw the crowds, he had compassion on them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd. 37Then he said to his disciples, “The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few. 38Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field.”

Spock thoughts: Had Jesus said, "send out male workers into his harvest field ". I might be thinking a bit differently. 

Beautiful!  

 

John 20:17 Jesus said to her, "Do not hold on to me, because I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'" 20:18 Mary Magdalene went and announced to the disciples, "I have seen the Lord"; and she told them that he had said these things to her.

"It is ironic with the low status of women in that day that Jesus chose to appear to Mary and the other women, and that "the first Christian preachers of the Resurrection were not men, but women!" (The Dictionary of Jesus and the Gospels, 883). Jesus did not first appear to the "vicar" of the church, Peter, or even to the beloved disciple. He appeared to Mary and the women who followed him and served him. Mary saw him first, and she received the central tenet of the Christian faith: "He is risen!" She was the first to proclaim the good news, or gospel, of the resurrection. Jesus could have just as easily appeared to Peter and the beloved disciple, or to the disciples cowered behind locked doors. That he appeared to Mary first can only mean that this was by divine appointment and was a deliberate act on his part. Women as well as men were credible witnesses to the gospel and were commissioned to preach it to all with whom they came into contact. And the women were faithful in proclaiming the Gospel, even to the disciples."

Apostle to the Apostles:
The Women Disciples of Jesus

Shawna R. B. Atteberry

 

 

 

 

The Greek Words Used to Describe Preaching

Prepared by Bob Young
Page may be copied and used for teaching purposes with appropriate credit noted

INTRODUCTION

• 1. For preachers to fulfill their calling and please God, they must understand the New Testament teaching about the life and work of preachers of the gospel; they must incorporate this teaching into their ministries.
  2. The New Testament is the primary source from which one can learn what the preacher should do.
  3. It is possible for a preacher to please himself and others while at the same displeasing God (Prov. 16:25; 2 Tim. 4:1-5).
  4. It is essential that preachers approach this study with humility and a sincere willingness to learn.

I. A PROCESS FOR ACCURATELY UNDERSTANDING THE BIBLE

• A. One must know the meaning of the words used in the Bible.
  B. One must know how the words fit together to form sentences (syntax).
  C. One must understand the immediate context of which the sentence is a part (paragraph, chapter, book).
  D. One must understand the remote context--what the Bible says elsewhere on the same and related subjects.
  E. One must understand the general message of the Bible.

II. GUIDELINES FOR UNDERSTANDING A BIBLICAL TEXT

• A. Who is speaking, and to whom is the word being spoken?
  B. What situations in the context affect the meaning of the words?
  C. Should the language be understood literally or figuratively?
  D. Partial truth can lead one to false conclusions. A correct understanding comes only when one takes into account all of the verses which deal with the theme. Is the understanding of this text consistent with other texts related to the theme?
  E. The more difficult Biblical texts should be understand in a way that harmonizes and agrees with less difficult Biblical passages.
  F. Bible study should be done with an open mind, not influenced by the opinions or ideas already held.

III. THE IMPORTANCE OF AN INTENSIVE, ACCURATE WORD STUDY FOR UNDERSTANDING A BIBLE SUBJECT

• A. The words--not merely the thoughts of the Bible--are inspired (1 Cor. 2:13; 2 Pet.1:20-21).
  B. There are many synonyms in the NT.
  • (1) The Holy Spirit guided the process in each case.
    (2) It is imperative, therefore, that we give careful attention to them.

IV. A STUDY OF THE GREEK WORDS TRANSLATED BY THE ENGLISH WORD "PREACH"

• A. Some of the more significant Greek words to be included in this study are kerusso, euaggelizo, prokerusso, diaggeillo, laleo, kataggello, dialeggomai, and proeuaggelizomai
  B. The purpose of this study is to identify some of the words used in the New Testament in connection with the task of preaching--the task of making known to others the message and faith of Jesus Christ.

_________________

I. Kerusso

• A. Translations of this word
  • 1. "Proclaim"-- Lk. 12:3; Rev. 5;2
    2. "Publish"-- Mk. 1:45; 5:20, etc.
    3. "Preach"-- Matt. 3:1; 4:17; Acts 8:5; Acts 9:20 (Proclaimed- ASV)
  B. Basic Meaning
  • 1. ... "to be a herald; to officiate as a herald; to proclaim after the manner of a herald; always with the suggestion of formality, gravity, and an authority which must be listened to and obeyed..."(Thayer)
    2. This word itself says nothing about the message to be proclaimed.
  C. Conclusion: The preacher is to publicly proclaim the message to Christ with gravity and authority (Titus 2:15). The preacher must understand that he is a herald, proclaiming the message which originates with another.

II. Euaggelizo

• A. In the KJV, this word is translated by quite a few different expressions which actually differ very little. The following is not a complete list, but gives a general idea of how the word is used.
  • 1. "Declared"-- Rev. 10:7
    2. "Preach"-- Rev. 14:6
    3. "Bring good tidings"-- Lk. 2:10; 1 Thess. 3:6; "Declare glad tidings"-- Acts 13:32; ASV "good"
    4. "Preach the gospel"-- Lk. 4:18; 9:6; Rom. 1:15; 15:20; 1 Cor. 1:17; Gal. 1:8; 4:13
  B. Basic meaning: to make known the good message. Whereas kerusso said nothing about the message, this word says something about the content of the message.
  • There is but one good message as far as Christianity is concerned--the gospel of Christ.
  C. Conclusion: the gospel preacher makes known an important message (that of salvation through Christ). It is the only good news message relative to salvation from sin (Gal. 1:6-9).

III. Kataggello

• A. In the KJV, this word is translated as follows.
  • 1. "Declare"--Acts 17;23 (set forth, ASV), 1 Cor. 2:1 (proclaim, ASV)
    2. "Show"-- Acts 16:17; 26:23; I Cor. 11:26 (proclaim - ASV)
    3. "Speak "--Romans 1:8 (proclaimed -- ASV)
    4. "Preach"--Acts 4:2; 13:5; 15:36; I Cor. 9:14 (proclaim -- ASV); Phil. 1:16; (set for the defense) ASV; Col. 1:28 
    5. "Teach"--Acts 16:21
  B. Basic meaning: this word refers to the delivery of the message--to announce or declare, to make proclamation with authority (Moulton & Milligan).
  C. Conclusion: this word is similar to kerusso, but lacks some of the formality of an official declaration made by a herald.

IV. Dialegomai

• A. This word is translated several ways.
  • 1. "Preach"--(Acts 20:7) (discoursed--ASV)
    2. "Reason with"--(Acts 17:2; 18:19)]
    3. "Dispute"--Mk. 9:34; Acts 17:17; 19:8-9; 24:12; Jude 9; (ASV--reasoned, Acts 17:17; 19:8-9)
    4. "Speak"-- (Heb. 12.5)
  B. Basic meaning: while the basic meaning is to argue, discourse, debate, discuss, contend, as noted above, it can also mean "preach."
  C. Conclusion: the preacher of the gospel is to contend for the faith in discourse and discussion, in defense and debate.

V. Laleo

• A. This word is translated as follows:
  • 1. "Speak"--(I Cor. 14:3,4,5 and many others.)
    2. "Talk"--(Acts: 26:31) and a number of others. (Spoke--ASV)
    3. "Preach"--(Mark 2:2; Acts 8:25; 11:19; 13:42; 14:25; 16:6) (ASV uses speak)
  B. Basic meaning: this word is used when the emphasis is on the fact of utterance.
  C. Conclusion: the preacher speaks in specific words which in combination provide a message. The emphasis in the use of this word is on the act or process of speaking.

VI. Didasko

• A. In KJV, this word is translated only by "teach" (Mt. 28:20)
  B. Basic Meaning: This is a broad term used of teaching generally.
  C. Conclusion: The preacher is to be a teacher.

VII. Diaggello (see also apaggello, paragello, et.al.)

• A. In KJV, this word is translated:
  • 1. "Preach" (LK 9:60), (ASV--published abroad)
    2. "Declare" (Rom. 9:17), (ASV--published abroad)
  B. Basic meaning: to announce through, to declare fully, to publish abroad. 
  C. Conclusion: The preacher is to fully declare the gospel (cf. Acts 20:27), in every place (Mk. 16:15)

VIII. Apologeomai (cf. also apologia)

• A. In KJV, this word is translated:
  • 1. "Answer for myself" (Acts 25:8; 26:1-2), (ASV -- "said in his defense," "to make defense")
    2. "Excuse one's self" (2 Cor. 12:19), (ASV - Excusing ourselves), "Excuse" (Rom. 2:15)
    3. "Make defense" (Acts 19:33)
  B. Basic Meaning: to answer by making a defense against a charge. (Compare with apologia below)
  C. Conclusion: A preacher must be prepared to defend his position if the occasion warrants it.

IX. Suzeteo (suzetesis)

• A. This word is translated:
  • 1. "Question with" (Mk. 8:11; 9:14)
    2. "Dispute" (Acts 6:9; 9:29)
    3. "Reason together" (Mk. 12: 28) (ASV--questioning)
  B. Basic Meaning: to discuss, dispute, question, debate.
  C. Conclusion: At times preachers must question, reason together, discuss and debate about the gospel.

X. Strateo (cf. strateia)

• A. in KJV, this word is translated:
  • 1. "Go to warfare (I Cor. 9:7)
    2. "War" (2 Cor. 10:3; I Tim. 1:18; 2 Tim. 2:3-4; Jas. 4:1; I Pet. 2:11)
  B. Basic Meaning: to make war (from stratos, an encamped army), to make a military expedition.
  C. Conclusion: It is an obligation of Christians (including preachers) to engage in warfare against the adversaries of the Lord.

XI. Parresiazomai (cf. parresia)

• A. In KJV, this word is translated:
  • 1. "Speak boldly" (Acts 14:3; 18:26; 19:8; Eph. 6: 20)
    2. "Preach boldly" (Acts 9:27)
  B. Basic meaning: to use boldness in preaching or speaking; to speak boldly, plainly, freely, and confidently.
  C. Conclusion: it is right for preachers to preach boldly, plainly and confidently in making known the gospel.

XII. Epagonizebthai

• A. This word appears only once in the Greek N.T., in Jude 3 where it is translated "earnestly contend for."
  B. Basic Meaning: To contend strenuously in defense of.
  C. Conclusion: Christians (including preachers) have an obligation to earnestly contend for the faith.

XIII. Elegko (cf. elegkos) (reproof, 2 Tim. 3:16; evidence, Heb. 11:1)

• A. This word is translated:
  • 1. "Convince: (Jn. 8:46; ! Cor. 14:24; Titus 1:9; James 2:9)
    2. "Convict" (Jn. 8:9)
    3. "Tell one's fault" (Mt. 18:15)
    4. "Reprove" (LK. 3:19; Jn. 3:20; 16:8; Eph. 5:11, 13; 2 Tim. 4:2)
    5. "Rebuke" (I Tim. 5:20; Titus 1:13; 2:15; Heb. 12:5; Rev, 3:19)
  B. Basic meaning: by conviction to bring to light, to expose, and refute teachers or false doctrine; to rebuke severely, to chide, admonish, to call to account and show one his fault.
  C. Conclusion: Preachers have an obligation to expose and refute false teachers and to call sinners to account.

XIV. Parakaleo

• A. This word is translated in several ways including "called for," "entreat," "beseech," "desire," and "exhort."
  B. Basic meaning: literally, to call along side, as an advocate or representative. This basic idea is reflected in Jesus' reference to the Holy Spirit in John as "comforter."
  C. Conclusion: There is a place for pleading and exhorting with compassion in the preaching of the gospel.

XV. Matheteo

• A. This word is translated:
  • 1. "Be a disciple" (Mt. 27:57)
    2. "Teach" (Mt. 28:19; Acts 14:21), (ASV--make disciples)
    3. "Instruct" (Mt. 13:52), (ASV--been made a disciple)
  B. Basic meaning: to follow one as a disciple; to make or cause one to be a disciple; by implication; to teach, instruct.
  C. Conclusion: The preacher (as well as others) has the obligation to instruct as many as possible with a view to leading them to become disciples.

CONCLUSION
God's plan is for preachers to faithfully and fully preach the word (Acts 20:20; 2 Tim. 4:1-2). We have multiplied examples of this in the word studies above and in biblical examples (especially see Acts 20:18-21, 24-27).

---

 

http://www.bobyoungresources.com/bible/grkprch.htm

Last updated October 26, 2012

[Wolf Bridges]

24 minutes ago, Spock said:

Matthew 9

The Workers Are Few

35Jesus went through all the towns and villages, teaching in their synagogues, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom and healing every disease and sickness. 36When he saw the crowds, he had compassion on them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd. 37Then he said to his disciples, “The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few. 38Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field.”

Spock thoughts: Had Jesus said, "send out male workers into his harvest field ". I might be thinking a bit differently. 

I copied this from a Bible site because the KJV is not copyright protected but is a public domain. You know how Paul's letter in one case about wives is being used often enough to have it appear as if God told Paul to tell the world women are not to preach? Remember the scripture where Paul said we are all one in Christ? He said that more than once.  

Try this letter to the Romans. About preaching. Note the bold underlined part?There's no male exclusive gender identity in his remarks there. 

Romans 10 (KJV)

10 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

² For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

³ For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

⁴ For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

⁵ For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

⁶ But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)

⁷ Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

⁸ But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

⁹ That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

¹⁰ For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

¹¹ For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

¹² For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

¹³ For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

¹⁴ How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

¹⁵ And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

¹⁶ But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

¹⁷ So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

¹⁸ But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.

¹⁹ But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

²⁰ But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.

²¹ But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

King James Version (KJV)

Public Domain

 

 

[simplejeff]

< shrugs >   God apparently continues telling A LOT of people today not to let women preach over men.

A LOT of men and women and children AGREE about this.

Just not all.

[Wolf Bridges]

12 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

< shrugs >   God apparently continues telling A LOT of people today not to let women preach over men.

A LOT of men and women and children AGREE about this.

Just not all.

Apparently? 

What evidence do you have of that apparent fact today? When there are so many women preachers in the world. 

What scripture of God's command, not a pastoral letter written by Paul to his churches, is there that says that? Please post. Thank you.  

[Spock]

58 minutes ago, Wolf Bridges said:

Apparently? 

What evidence do you have of that apparent fact today? When there are so many women preachers in the world. 

What scripture of God's command, not a pastoral letter written by Paul to his churches, is there that says that? Please post. Thank you.  

Eating popcorn. ?

[Spock]

Hey churchmouse,

I would love to read your feedback on each paragraph I have written below. I would like to see what common ground we have if any.  

If you don't mind,  would you write 1 for your feedback on paragraph 1 only;  2 for feedback on paragraph 2 only; and 3 for feedback on paragraph 3 only.  Thanks.

1. People have and are still guilty of taking a verse or two from the word out of context and use it to support WHAT THEY WANT IT TO SAY.  I cited the bigoted racists of the 1800s who did just that, when they justified their right to slavery by quoting guess who? Paul from his LETTERS. (I wonder if Paul ever thought all of his LETTERS would end up being scripture read everyday for thousands of years by every Christian  on an equal plane with the Gospels, Acts, Hebrews, and Revelation?  Philemon who?  Just a thought.)  Therefore, we have to be careful not to use a very small segment of scripture to make a doctrine. 

2. Because of this, I encourage a TOTAL examination of the entire word as a better  way to support a doctrine.  What does God say about roles of women from Genesis to Revelation, not just a few verses from the same guy who is writing a specific LETTER to a specific person or a specific church. I also encourage the use of COMMON SENSE too, which means you might have to exam context and culture.

3.  People often apply context and culture much more than they probably I magine.  For example, how many Christians  have erased the 4th commandment from their  Bible and some have even done away with all 10 commandments saying they only apply to a person of Jewish persuasion.  Eating food set apart for idols is another that comes to mind. Why did they do that?  I'm sure Context and culture came into play along with perhaps a few other factors like keeping traditions.  So, if you are allowed to apply context and culture on some matters, is it possible this issue of women roles should also be filtered through a context/culture lens?

Thanks for your feedback. I will be reading and pondering. I value your input. 

Spock

 

[FresnoJoe]

On 5/15/2017 at 8:09 PM, Spock said:

We will start off easy- davida didn't answer me, so maybe you can....
Paul gave a lot of dos and don't but did you notice....
he never spoke against slavery....

How come? 

Brother Saul

All who are under the yoke as slaves must regard their own masters to be worthy of all respect, so that God's name and His teaching will not be blasphemed. 1 Timothy 6:1 (Holman Christian Standard Bible)

Speaks On Slavery

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. Try to please them all the time, not just when they are watching you. As slaves of Christ, do the will of God with all your heart. Work with enthusiasm, as though you were working for the Lord rather than for people. Remember that the Lord will reward each one of us for the good we do, whether we are slaves or free.

Masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Don’t threaten them; remember, you both have the same Master in heaven, and he has no favorites. Ephesians 6:5-9 (New Living Translation)

~

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

 

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27 (King James Bible)

Love, Your Brother Joe

~

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. Psalms 119:160 (King James Bible)

The Bible contains the mind of God, the state of man, the way of salvation, the doom of sinners, and the happiness of believers. Its doctrines are holy, its precepts are binding, its histories are true, and its decisions are immutable.

Read it to be wise, believe it to be safe, and practice it to be holy. It contains light to direct you, food to support you, and comfort to cheer you.

It is the traveler’s map, the pilgrim’s staff, the pilot’s compass, the soldier’s sword and the Christian’s charter. Here too, Heaven is opened and the gates of Hell disclosed.

Christ is its grand subject, our good its design, and the glory of God its end. It should fill the memory, rule the heart and guide the feet. Read it slowly, frequently and prayerfully.  It is a mine of wealth, a paradise of glory, and a river of pleasure.

It is given you in life, will be opened at the judgment, and be remembered forever. It involves the highest responsibility, rewards the greatest labor, and will condemn all who trifle with its sacred contents.

From The Inside Of My Gideon New Testament

[hmbld]

2 hours ago, Wolf Bridges said:

I copied this from a Bible site because the KJV is not copyright protected but is a public domain. You know how Paul's letter in one case about wives is being used often enough to have it appear as if God told Paul to tell the world women are not to preach? Remember the scripture where Paul said we are all one in Christ? He said that more than once.  

Try this letter to the Romans. About preaching. Note the bold underlined part?There's no male exclusive gender identity in his remarks there. 

As for workers of the harvest, they be male and female, sure, yet I am not sure that throws out the headship argument.   These are two separate issues.