Psalm 27:5

[Willa]

On 6/6/2017 at 9:05 PM, wingnut- said:

 

This Psalm in its entirety reflects coming from the time when David was fleeing for his life from Saul.  If it were to be taken as a prophecy, seeing that David was a King of Israel, it would be more in regards to Israel being safe in the wilderness than anything else.  However since David talks about being surrounded by his enemies it is most likely from the time when Saul was hunting him.

God bless

But many of the Psalms are prophetic as well.  Many are Messianic.  Others express the prayers of our own hearts.  The same principals apply to many.  That is why they are so loved.  David's cries for help and God's promises echo down through the ages.  

[warrior12]

5 minutes ago, Willa said:

But many of the Psalms are prophetic as well.  Many are Messianic.  Others express the prayers of our own hearts.  The same principals apply to many.  That is why they are so loved.  David's cries for help and God's promises echo down through the ages.  

Yes, you are correct in that the Lord said to his children and we can summarize to say " Never will i leave you nor forsake you" Heb 13:5.   

⁵ Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

⁶ So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me.

Verse 6 here points to who is your helper and in adversity and whatever the circumstances the Lord is your deliverer.   The three boys were delievered from the furnaces that should have scorced them to death and they did not loose a hair.  Let's say here, if the saints are not raptured and are left in the tribulation period, is the Lord hand too short or not capable to do spectacular and supernatural things so that his children would not be touched.  How would the Lord put it, Oh ye of little faith.   Psalms 1 the last two verses put this very well into perspectives.     

I would not be worried one iota if left to be in the tribulation period, as the Lord knows how to take care of his own.     Many are fearful of that great and terrible time, but are thinking only in human terms of what the outcomes would be if saints are left to be in that period. 

[wingnut-]

21 minutes ago, Willa said:

But many of the Psalms are prophetic as well.  Many are Messianic.  Others express the prayers of our own hearts.  The same principals apply to many.  That is why they are so loved.  David's cries for help and God's promises echo down through the ages.  

 

I agree that many of the Psalms are prophetic, I don't deny that this Psalm in particular couldn't be referencing a future time as well.  What I am saying is that it is NOT speaking of heaven when one accounts for the body of the Psalm and not just focusing on one particular verse. 

God bless

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, warrior12 said:

5 hours ago, iamlamad said:

You can be a doubter if you choose - and it appears that is what you have chosen. No problem: you will be left behind and will then have to face a terrible choice: take the mark or lose your head. You won't be alone though.

No, this is not Biblical teachings.   You don't have a choice in the matter of the "rapture" as those who subscribe to this teaching or interpretation.  If you are a born again saint, how can you be left behind. Will not all, every single believer be raptured according to the belief.   Is it not only unbelievers, who would be left behind, you don't have a choice in the matter.    So in fact, only the Lord knows who is saved and would be raptured .   If a person is a doubter in the rapture, does it make him a unbeliever.   

What about the people who are in the  middle, like me.  I do not pay too much attention to this , as i don't have a choice, it is the Lord to decide.  I am to do what is required of me here as a born again believer with the tools and graces given here to occupy, i.e  repentance, sanctification, justification, hope, faith and the rest.  The Lord know who are his and he will act accordingly.  Why the preoccupation with a word that believers have become entangled with and fuss over.   

There are many well respected Theologians that holds opposite views, and these are men who have been in study of scripture most of their lives.   Taking the mark has nothing to do with the rapture as such, but allegiance to whom is your Lord and savior.  If you are sealed with the Holy Spirit, the mark is of no relevance to you, only to unbelievers.

Is this true - that it is not a biblical teaching?

Heb. 9:²⁷ And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

²⁸ So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

What of those that are NOT looking for Him? If you can truly be expecting His coming any day, while at the same time believe you will see the days of great tribulation come first, you may be the only human who can pull this off.

Question:

Are there born again saints who are NOT looking for His coming?

Are there born again saints who are caught in the sin of fornication?

Are there born again saints who are caught (trapped) by the sin if lying?

Are there born again saints who are harboring unforgiveness?

There are verses that tell us liars and fornicators cannot go to heaven. Jesus said that if we don't forgive, then neither will our Father forgive us. Such believers, if there are such, must repent and quit.  Next, are these sins by CHOICE? Certainly they are.

Therefore, I don't believe that all born again believers are ready for the rapture.

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, wingnut- said:

 

Two different passages of scripture, you are completely side-stepping the obvious flaws you cannot attribute to occurring in heaven by switching to a different subject.  I guess you are trying to infer that one cannot find the Lord in heaven, or would have to be concerned with the Lord leaving or forsaking one in heaven.  Ridiculous is the only word that comes to mind.

I only commented on this verse:

Psalm 27:5 For in the time of trouble
He shall hide me in His pavilion;
In the secret place of His tabernacle
He shall hide me;

This verse fits any time of trouble, and what is coming during the days of GT will certainly be trouble with a capital T.  In fact, the verse in Isaiah says something very similar. This verse was the subject.

[warrior12]

44 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Therefore, I don't believe that all born again believers are ready for the rapture.

My point is, you don't have a choice as a born again believer.  If you are born again, your inheritance is sure, is that not what being adopted as sons of God mean.  So how can you say as you have said, a believer would be left behind.   Does not make sense to me.      So what does born again really mean, could you please describe the way you understand this.    

All believers error in daily life as we have a foe, the flesh and others to cause us to stumble.  But we have to come to terms with our failures and take the avenues of correction and repentance.   Who is without fault ?.  Yes willful sin is grievous, but a born again believer will strive to avoid them.   As much as many believers would not come to terms with, the devil can send some very trying times even to the born again christian.  

[iamlamad]

Just now, warrior12 said:

My point is, you don't have a choice as a born again believer.  If you are born again, your inheritance is sure, is that not what being adopted as sons of God mean.  So how can you say as you have said, a believer would be left behind.   Does not make sense to me.      So what does born again really mean, could you please describe the way you understand this.    

All believers error in daily life as we have a foe, the flesh and others to cause us to stumble.  But we have to come to terms with our failures and take the avenues of correction and repentance.   Who is without fault ?.  Yes willful sin is grievous, but a born again believer will strive to avoid them.   As much as many believers would not come to terms with, the devil can send some very trying times even to the born again christian.  

It is true that believers sin. John tells us this. He also tells us that Jesus blood will cleanse us if we confess our sins. What I have seen, however, is that people get caught is a sin, because there is pleasure there for a season, and then get trapped. For a while they may confess this sin as it happens, but the time comes when they are so guilty they quit confessing that sin and try then to justify it.  Then there is a new move of Satan to get into "ultimate grace" where some people preach that 1 John 1:9 is for sinners, and they say something like, "i would be embarrassed to confess sin to Christ" with some crazy reason why.  in my mind this is a very dangerous direction for a believer to take.  My point here is, it is a very dangerous place for a believer to begin justifying his or her sin. Another way to say that is to ignore our conscience and sear it.  Another point is, a repeated sin puts one in bondage to that sin as the bible tells us.

Therefore, I believe we DO have a choice. First, we have a choice not to commit a sin in the first place. And even after we are in bondage to a sin, we STILL have a choice, but the choice is much more difficult.  God looks on our heart. He is the only one that can.

[warrior12]

15 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Therefore, I believe we DO have a choice. First, we have a choice not to commit a sin in the first place. And even after we are in bondage to a sin, we STILL have a choice, but the choice is much more difficult.  God looks on our heart. He is the only one that can.

I think our first parents had that choice too.   We are nevertheless here and have to learn from our errors which we would make along life's journey and each one of us has a path that is unknown to others.   We have to use the tools given to us to avoid the pitfalls set, but the best have had their share of snares and the falls that no other can see, which is embedded in the heart.    

[wingnut-]

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I only commented on this verse:

Psalm 27:5 For in the time of trouble
He shall hide me in His pavilion;
In the secret place of His tabernacle
He shall hide me;

This verse fits any time of trouble, and what is coming during the days of GT will certainly be trouble with a capital T.  In fact, the verse in Isaiah says something very similar. This verse was the subject.

 

Yes, and you are ignoring the rest of the Psalm when you try and claim it represents the church being removed.  As I pointed out, that is cherry picking, quite obvious when you take the Psalm as a whole.

[iamlamad]

16 hours ago, inchrist said:

So how do you fit that verse with the following verse in Revelation

¹⁰ Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you life as your victor’s crown.

David is probably who wrote it. Did HE have trouble? Certainly, but much of it was his own doing.

What do you make of the ten days?