House Whip Scalise, security detail shot at baseball practice; suspect in custody

[Running Gator]

Just now, Davida said:

No they were not.

Thank you for your opinion.  I disagree with it, but that is the great thing about our country. 

[Steve_S]

Just now, Running Gator said:

Even in WWII it was not that some of the victims of our attacks were not seen as innocent, they were just considered collateral damage and part of the the cost of war. 

Yes. That is precisely what I'm talking about. There is a level of expendability ascribed to individuals by other individuals who are about to participate in killing. This level of expendability can be very low, say, in the case of someone who is actively under attack and only lethally retaliates when there is no other option, or it can be very high, say, in the instance of a person walking into an elementary school with an assault rifle. Somewhere in that range falls collateral damage in wars. However, there were many attacks made against targets in a great many countries that had no real military or infrastructural value to the war effort, with the desired effect of basically beating the other side into capitulation. The firebombings of dresden and tokyo probably fall into this category, as well as a number of other cities (of note, I am not including the axis powers in this discussion because from the outset the germans were bent on the murder of the innocent to one degree or another; also i'm intentionally avoiding a point about hiroshima and nagasaki that may take this conversation far off topic). The people who ordered these attacks and the people who carried them out felt that it was for the greater good and, at the end of the day, it may have been. What I am trying to get at, and I don't have an answer to this, is at what point mental instability is something that you can really determine with regards to someone who does something like we saw today. I have no idea what his reasons were, nor do I know who he was. What i'm getting at is, where does the instability lie? Is it because a person is willing to kill a large number of basically defenseless people or is it because he has a broken sense of what is worth killing people over? It's a difficult question to contemplate.

[The_Patriot21]

I think labeling mentally unstable takes away from the personal accountability. Suggests that they wernt fully in control of their actions, and quite frankly while there are definitely instances of that, it is an incorrect assumption to think that all people who commit crimes of this nature are mentally unstable.

With this shooter, time will tell I guess.

[SavedByGrace1981]

2 minutes ago, Running Gator said:

I do not see how being mentally unstable removes evil.   

I can.

If a person is mentally unstable (by definition, their brain is not functioning correctly), it is conceivable that the filters that the majority of humanity possesses (the filter of self-control, for instance) are not working.  So the 'filter' that would prevent most people from taking a weapon and aiming it at innocent people is not there.

Their ACTIONS are certainly evil, but they may not have the capability or moral ability to know evil.

In olden times, I think demon possession was at times mis-applied to people who may have had mental issues. (not saying demon possession does not happen, but I can see where it might be mis-applied)

Blessings,

-Ed

 

[Running Gator]

1 minute ago, The_Patriot2017 said:

I think labeling mentally unstable takes away from the personal accountability. Suggests that they wernt fully in control of their actions, and quite frankly while there are definitely instances of that, it is an incorrect assumption to think that all people who commit crimes of this nature are mentally unstable.

With this shooter, time will tell I guess.

I just heard he is dead, so we will have limited answers.  

As for being mentally unstable, I believe that such a condition is a self inflicted condition, which is why I do not see it as taking away from their accountability. 

Going all the way back to Cain, he allowed his jealousy to fester and make him unstable to the point that he killed his brother.  This does not remove his accountability, as it was his own actions that caused the instability. 

[Guest shiloh357]

17 minutes ago, Running Gator said:

I do not see how being mentally unstable removes evil.   

If a person is suffering from mental disorders that lead them to do commit acts of murder, that is not looked upon, in the legal world, as being the same as someone who murders in cold blood.

Our own legal system does not operate from the assumption that if a person murders innocent people, they are mentally unstable.   There is a legal defense for those who kill, but are suffer from mental disorders, insanity, whatever.    So it is not the case that every time someone murders innocent people, we can simply label it as a result of mental instability.

[Running Gator]

2 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Mentally unstable alright, Sekulow is saying he is a Sanders supporter.

That is what his FaceBook indicated. 

[Guest shiloh357]

7 minutes ago, Running Gator said:

 

As for being mentally unstable, I believe that such a condition is a self inflicted condition, which is why I do not see it as taking away from their accountability. 

 

Mental instability cannot be written off as self-inflicted.  Mental instability can result from a number of factors that are outside the control of the person who is afflicted by it.

[Running Gator]

1 minute ago, shiloh357 said:

If a person is suffering from mental disorders that lead them to do commit acts of murder, that is not looked upon, in the legal world, as being the same as someone who murders in cold blood.

Our own legal system does not operate from the assumption that if a person murders innocent people, they are mentally unstable.   There is a legal defense for those who kill, but are suffer from mental disorders, insanity, whatever.    So it is not the case that every time someone murders innocent people, we can simply label it as a result of mental instability.

I do not see having a mental disorder the same as being mentally unstable.  Mental disorders are the result of chemical imbalance in your body that do not allow your mind to work correctly. 

Being mentally unstable, in my view, is a self inflicted condition that is not caused by a chemical imbalance and is often a temporary condition.   People allow hate or greed or other emotions to take over their lives, thus leaving them unstable. 

[other one]

4 minutes ago, Yowm said:

Mentally unstable alright, Sekulow is saying he is a Sanders supporter.

If that's the case why wasn't he shooting democrats..... They are the ones that messed over Sanders