One Church or many denominations?

[Your closest friendnt]

5 hours ago, Gary Lee said:

I suppose there's at least two ways to approach someone that  I'm concerned about, do they know what they must do to be saved. One. If my spirit is moving me to talk to them, I try to steer  a conversation to my situation that led up to asking God to save me. I then listen to his response, and yes, I do judge, by their excitement of their finding the truth, or the lack of response, and their hesitancy  to discuss. This will give me the opportunity to share the good news, if allowed. I don't bring up hell unless they ask, or if I know I won't have another chance to talk to them.  I don't tell born again believers they're going to hell.    Who am I to judge? Someone that never heard about being born again for thirty years, till some one had the spiritual pluck to tell me. No telling how many believers I encountered over those years, and never heard the true gospel.

The second way is to cover them in prayer.
 

I enjoy reading your post, and to hear that you invest some time to give the good news to others. 

I have found out that it is easier to say something about are faith, if we do that in a certain way and without judgement. 

An example is the verse in John 3:16. 

This verse just informs, and it is environmentally friendly. 

Because it doesn't asks a question. 

And is not examining the personal life of anyone, what they do and what they don't, their works whether good or not so good. 

I would rather say , inform, that when we believe we are born from above, not even that, just to inform Believers in Jesus Christ they don't go to Hell, they are going in the opposite direction, on the account of Jesus Christ. In his name.

So I emphasize let's keep our faith in Jesus Christ till the end, no matter what may comes our way, and whatever path we may find our selfs later on. 

My mission is not to call others to discipleship, and that to, this is the Lord's calling, as it happened to me to.

My mission is to inform and highlight to keep the faith, or remained in the faith of Jesus Christ, and that beyond any denominations, or Christian culture.

I don't call people to repentance , and or to baptism, or to any denominations, unless I judge what the message I just gave, keep the faith till the end. 

The repentance is a personal calling from the Lord. 

Everyone has his own consience, if I am asked, I will say that JESUS want to help us unto a good or better consience .  

But not to judge, we are Saved in his name always. 

In my case I have discovered that I want to please JESUS by living a life that is good in his eyes, and I have learned to deeply love him, by understanding the great love he has for all of us. And I have learned that he is please when we help his children, and not just them, but everyone. 

Love one another, as I have loved you. 

 

[Guest BacKaran]

Dear Eileenhat,

Truth sister. Thank you for your encouragement.

 

[Swords99]

On 6/22/2017 at 8:36 PM, Fidei Defensor said:

The word Church comes from the Greek word ἐκκλησία, ας ekklésia, which is where we get the word ecclesia, and it is defined according to Strong's, "an assembly, congregation, church; the Church, the whole body of Christian believers." The latter definition, "The whole body of Christian believers," being the most accurate translation of the word. Here is how we arrived at word Church, "The English word "church" comes from the Greek word kyriakos, "belonging to the Lord" (kyrios). 1577 /ekklēsía ("church") is the root of the terms "ecclesiology" and "ecclesiastical." Jesus uses these word ecclesia long before Pentecost, and His Disciples, The Twelve which included Peter, James, John, and the others was the Church. It only takes two or more to be church (kyrios/ecclesia), "For where two or three gather together in My name, there am I with them," (Matthew 18:20), note that verse is prior to Jesus' death, resurrection, and ascension. Jesus dwells in all people who believe and trust in Him for salvation (Colossians 1:27, 1 Corinthians 3:16, John 14). The Church or Ecclesia is all Christians who believe in Jesus Christ as God, Lord, and Savior (John 6:40, John 3:16, Romans 10:9-10), and through this believe and confession they now belong to Lord Jesus (Kyrios). 

Years ago, in my grandparent's generation, they often said on Sunday that they were going to the "church house." Today that sounds funny, but church is NOT a building. We (Christians) are the church.

[Fidei Defensor]

1 minute ago, Swords99 said:

Years ago, in my grandparent's generation, they often said on Sunday that they were going to the "church house." Today that sounds funny, but church is NOT a building. We (Christians) are the church.

Indeed, we Christians Kyrios and Ecclesia, the Church. And yet thanks to Constantine, it became associated with a building. 

[Swords99]

On 6/23/2017 at 2:40 AM, eileenhat said:

Re; What is heretical

Quote from orig. link:

"After the Reformation denominations emerged that shared a common faith in the Gospel of Jesus Christ but held to different teachings on baptism, the Lord’s Supper, the sovereignty of God in salvation; the future of Israel; eschatology, and gifts of the Spirit. These doctrinal differences continue to be based on flawed understandings of the whole counsel of God’s Word."*

The real question is always the same though.  Is the teaching heretical?  If not, then it is not against God, regarding "different teachings on baptism, the Lord's supper etc." from above.

Got questions says this regarding heresay,

"Second Peter 2:1 says, “There will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.” From this verse, we see that heresy is anything that denies the teaching of Jesus. In 1 Corinthians 11:19, "**

End times on what is heretical

I personally see 2 Peter 2:1 in the light of the 7 Churches of Revelations.  For example, I see 'denying Jesus' in Catholiscism.  I listened to one nun tell her story of growing up Catholic in the early part of the 20th century and that there was no Bible ever in her house.  Nor did the Catholic Church teach her about Jesus Christ.

Some feel the the Church of Thyatira in Rev. 2:18-29 is the Catholic Church*** because its attributes are 'good works' or "service" (Rev. 2:19).

In Rev. 2:18-29 we hear that this Church has a spirit in her references as a Jezebel spirit.  If you look at biblehub it references Acts 16:11-15, a story about some apostles meeting a women from Thyatira.  In the next set of verses about this women's household (Acts 16:16-18), we find a women is possessed by a demon that the apostle casts out.  So a confirmation that indeed this church in Revelations (Thatira) has an evil spirit in it, giving it a voice.  To me this 'voice' (as the evil spirit in Acts 16 caused this women to be a medium) speaks through the Catholic Church.  This particular church has always 'gone its own way' and evolved its own dictates and rules.  It has a strong voice that leads God's people astray.

Conclusion

You can speak about an individual Church having issues, but in it's entirety, the protestant Christian Church is not heretical.  However, the Catholic church is and is dealt with by God in the end.

There are a few so-called protestant Churches that we can add to the list (but they have been well discussed/figured out, like the JW's).

I therefore see no issue with having a variety of denominations as long as at their heart, they love, cherish and following Jesus Christ and our Lord in heaven.

 

*http://www.pro-gospel.org/site/blogview2.asp?sec_id=180014816&forum_id=180003854&message_id=180037443&topic_id=180018067

**https://www.gotquestions.org/heresy-definition.html

***http://www.end-times-prophecy.org/seven-churches-revelation-thyatira.html

 

I agree that the Protestant faiths are not heretical. However, something insidious has slowly been taking place. The best definition of insidious in this case is:  operating or proceeding in an inconspicuous or seemingly harmless way, but actually with grave effect.

Many denoms have gotten more liberal over the years. When it evolves gradually, it's hardly noticed. They have become watered down in theology. If we look at the surveys that have been taken since the early 20th century, the changes are unmistakable. There are pastors now who no longer believe ALL of the Bible. They have no problem saying some of it is myth. There's also many christians who don't believe in Jesus' miracles, hell, etc

What is Christ going to find when He returns? Diluted faiths/churches.

[Swords99]

15 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Indeed, we Christians Kyrios and Ecclesia, the Church. And yet thanks to Constantine, it became associated with a building. 

Yes. The forming and organization of the Roman Catholic church.

[Fidei Defensor]

27 minutes ago, Swords99 said:

Yes. The forming and organization of the Roman Catholic church.

Indeed, Constantine helped create a paid priesthood and a neo-temple (building) in 313-333 A.D. The Roman Catholic Church came out of Eastern Orthodox Church (Constantine's Church preserved in all its gold) in year 1054 A.D. So both Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism are offspring of Constantine. 

[Swords99]

1 minute ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Indeed, Constantine helped create a paid priesthood and a neo-temple (building) in 313-333 A.D. The Roman Catholic Church came out of Eastern Orthodox Church (Constantine's Church preserved in all its gold) in year 1054 A.D. So both Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism are offspring of Constantine. 

Yes. Most, if not all, Roman Catholics, however, do not agree with this. They claim to have existed at Pentecost. The very church founded upon Peter. In fact, many of them find the inclusion of the word: "Roman" offensive.

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

On 6/22/2017 at 8:36 PM, Fidei Defensor said:

The word Church comes from the Greek word ἐκκλησία, ας ekklésia, which is where we get the word ecclesia, and it is defined according to Strong's, "an assembly, congregation, church; the Church, the whole body of Christian believers." The latter definition, "The whole body of Christian believers," being the most accurate translation of the word. Here is how we arrived at word Church, "The English word "church" comes from the Greek word kyriakos, "belonging to the Lord" (kyrios). 1577 /ekklēsía ("church") is the root of the terms "ecclesiology" and "ecclesiastical." Jesus uses these word ecclesia long before Pentecost, and His Disciples, The Twelve which included Peter, James, John, and the others was the Church. It only takes two or more to be church (kyrios/ecclesia), "For where two or three gather together in My name, there am I with them," (Matthew 18:20), note that verse is prior to Jesus' death, resurrection, and ascension. Jesus dwells in all people who believe and trust in Him for salvation (Colossians 1:27, 1 Corinthians 3:16, John 14). The Church or Ecclesia is all Christians who believe in Jesus Christ as God, Lord, and Savior (John 6:40, John 3:16, Romans 10:9-10), and through this believe and confession they now belong to Lord Jesus (Kyrios). 

I'll quote your whole post so that I'm not accused of cherry picking again  ..... but it's really only one part I would like to ask for clarification (so to be clear I am cherry picking  lol).

Quote

It only takes two or more to be church (kyrios/ecclesia), "For where two or three gather together in My name, there am I with them," (Matthew 18:20)

I would like to ask. Where all believers Apostles? Because the context of this verse is Jesus speaking to the apostles and not to his disciples. I believe that all believers are disciples but not all disciples were apostles. So I'm curious if you are putting all disciples on the same level as the apostles?

So two questions in there:

Where all believers Apostles?

are putting all disciples on the same level as the apostles?

Quote

 

Matthew 18:15-20

A Brother who Sins

15And if thy brother sin against thee, go, shew him his fault between thee and him alone: if he hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16But if he hear thee not, take with thee one or two more, that at the mouth of two witnesses or three every word may be established. 17And if he refuse to hear them, tell it unto the church: and if he refuse to hear the church also, let him be unto thee as the Gentile and the publican. 18Verily I say unto you, What things soever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and what things soever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

19Again I say unto you, that if two of you shall agree on earth as touching anything that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. 20For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

 

Do disciples have the authority to bind and loose things in heaven?

For me, when taken into the context of the entire passage Jesus is establishing his authority on earth. First time we see the binding and loosing language is with Peter, than with the Apostles (NOT disciples). We see Jesus setting structure and authority among his disciples and verse 20 is not talking about disciples its talking about the apostles. Where ever 2 or more apostles are gathered in Jesus's name he is there among them. This is where the councils of the Church get their authority to do things like close the canon of scripture and declare which books are inspired and which are not. We see in Act's that the disciples acknowledge this authoritative structure when they send Paul and Barnabas to Jerusalem to have the problem with the Judaizers dealt with. Paul was an apostle, why didn't he just make the decision himself? Because it's when 2 or 3 are gathered.

[Fidei Defensor]

7 hours ago, Judas Machabeus said:

I'll quote your whole post so that I'm not accused of cherry picking again  ..... but it's really only one part I would like to ask for clarification (so to be clear I am cherry picking  lol).

I would like to ask. Where all believers Apostles? Because the context of this verse is Jesus speaking to the apostles and not to his disciples. I believe that all believers are disciples but not all disciples were apostles. So I'm curious if you are putting all disciples on the same level as the apostles?

So two questions in there:

Where all believers Apostles?

are putting all disciples on the same level as the apostles?

Do disciples have the authority to bind and loose things in heaven?

For me, when taken into the context of the entire passage Jesus is establishing his authority on earth. First time we see the binding and loosing language is with Peter, than with the Apostles (NOT disciples). We see Jesus setting structure and authority among his disciples and verse 20 is not talking about disciples its talking about the apostles. Where ever 2 or more apostles are gathered in Jesus's name he is there among them. This is where the councils of the Church get their authority to do things like close the canon of scripture and declare which books are inspired and which are not. We see in Act's that the disciples acknowledge this authoritative structure when they send Paul and Barnabas to Jerusalem to have the problem with the Judaizers dealt with. Paul was an apostle, why didn't he just make the decision himself? Because it's when 2 or 3 are gathered.

Actually Apostle is a gift not a position, "Now these are the gifts Christ gave to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers." (Ephesians 4:11 NLT, I have checked the Greek and it is gifts, not post.) Another place in Scripture we see Gifts as in The Gifts of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:4-11). So yes, this is true for all believers, because we follow the teachngs of Jesus through Apostles, "“I am praying not only for these disciples but also for all who will ever believe in me through their message. ²¹ I pray that they will all be one, just as you and I are one—as you are in me, Father, and I am in you. And may they be in us so that the world will believe you sent me," (John 17:23) and the fact is we follow the Apostle's teachings, "They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer." (Acts 2:42). I believe everything Jesus said to Apostles is for all Christians, because Jesus didn't say, "Just for these apostles," he may have said it to them, but it is generalize statement, like He said to Nicodemius, "For God so Loved the World.." (John 3:16) but we don't say, well that only applies to Nicodemius or when Jesus said to free loading believers in John 6, "For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day." (John 6:40) because he was talking to them it was only for them. 

Anyone can be an apostle, evangelist, teacher, prophet, and pastor, they are gifts to edify and help the Church. They are not posts reserved for the Twelve Disciples and Paul. Lest anyone forget there were many other disciples, "The Lord now chose seventy-two^[a] other disciples and sent them ahead in pairs to all the towns and places he planned to visit. ² These were his instructions to them: “The harvest is great, but the workers are few. So pray to the Lord who is in charge of the harvest; ask him to send more workers into his fields. ³ Now go, and remember that I am sending you out as lambs among wolves. ⁴ Don’t take any money with you, nor a traveler’s bag, nor an extra pair of sandals. And don’t stop to greet anyone on the road," (Luke 10:1-4), "he said to them all: "Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me," (Luke 9:23), and "After that, He appeared to more than five hundred brothers at once, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep." (1 Corinthians 15:6). Even term disciple isn't special, like for the Twelve, there were many more. 

As for cherry picking, I forgive when it happened in past and I understand sometimes people want to only address a specific part of the post.