One Church or many denominations?

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

2 hours ago, Judas Machabeus said:

 

 

First off scripture doesn't interpret itself. Footnotes and commentaries are not inspired. Secondly here is an example from Patrick Madrid about interpitation:

A good example of this was give by Patrick Madrid in his book "Where is that in the Bible":

Let's say you found a note written by someone 100 years ago with these words:

I never said you stole money.

Anyone you asked would say they understood the meaning of that short, six word sentence. But do they? Do they really understand what meaning the writer intended 100 years ago?

The writer of that sentence might have meant "I never said you stole money", implying someone else said it.

Or perhaps he meant "I never said you stole money." He thought it, he suspected it, but he never said it.

Or maybe "I never said you stole money." He said your neighbor stole it.

Or, "I never said you stole money." He means that you lost it, or squandered it, or did something else with it that he didn't approve of, but you didn't steal it.

Or, "I never said you stole money." Maybe he said you stole his horse, or shoes, but not his money.

This shows how easy it is to derive several legitimate but very different meanings from this short, six word sentence. Think how easily the Bible can be misinterpreted. We can't just assume we have the correct understanding of Scripture. We need an authority to guide us, and the only true authority on the Bible is the Catholic Church. 

http://www.1peter3-15.org/misc/incontext.htm

This is the problem with sola scriptura, everyone becomes their own interpreter and they become their own Pope. They declare what a verse means and doesn't mean and they are right and everyone that disagrees is wrong.

 

 

1 hour ago, Swords99 said:

No we do not become our own interpreter. We must yield to the Holy Spirit. The born again Believer in Jesus Christ has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit who has many functions, one of which is illuminator of the scriptures. The NT church had Christ and the Spirit as it head. They are the only Authority along with the Holy Scriptures which testifies of them.

The pope is human. He sins like everyone else. He is not the authority of the Church Christ established. No man is nor can be.

 

One of the fruits of the reformation is mass disunity within the Body of Christ. The concept of sola scriptura has produced this disunity. All denominations claim to be lead by the Holy Spirit and claim that the group they broke away from no longer was being lead by the Spirit.

There is ONE truth and ONE Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit can not be leading every single different Protestant to all kinds of different truths. So for me sola scriptura is a false doctrine because two reasons. Its not scriptural, and the fruit it produces is disunity. How can you have thousands of different protestants all claiming to be lead by the Holy Spirit all having different truths.

[Swords99]

39 minutes ago, Judas Machabeus said:

 

One of the fruits of the reformation is mass disunity within the Body of Christ. The concept of sola scriptura has produced this disunity. All denominations claim to be lead by the Holy Spirit and claim that the group they broke away from no longer was being lead by the Spirit.

There is ONE truth and ONE Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit can not be leading every single different Protestant to all kinds of different truths. So for me sola scriptura is a false doctrine because two reasons. Its not scriptural, and the fruit it produces is disunity. How can you have thousands of different protestants all claiming to be lead by the Holy Spirit all having different truths.

The Reformation was necessary because of the errors of the RCC. Not to mention the abuses. What the Reformers did was bring the Bible back to the people. Their desire was for "every plow boy" to have a copy so he could read it himself.

God's word was never meant to be hidden in a church, but to be read by all. No church should ever have a monopoly on it.

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

2 hours ago, Swords99 said:

No we do not become our own interpreter. We must yield to the Holy Spirit. The born again Believer in Jesus Christ has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit who has many functions, one of which is illuminator of the scriptures. The NT church had Christ and the Spirit as it head. They are the only Authority along with the Holy Scriptures which testifies of them.

The pope is human. He sins like everyone else. He is not the authority of the Church Christ established. No man is nor can be.

 

 

53 minutes ago, Judas Machabeus said:

 

One of the fruits of the reformation is mass disunity within the Body of Christ. The concept of sola scriptura has produced this disunity. All denominations claim to be lead by the Holy Spirit and claim that the group they broke away from no longer was being lead by the Spirit.

There is ONE truth and ONE Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit can not be leading every single different Protestant to all kinds of different truths. So for me sola scriptura is a false doctrine because two reasons. Its not scriptural, and the fruit it produces is disunity. How can you have thousands of different protestants all claiming to be lead by the Holy Spirit all having different truths.

 

11 minutes ago, Swords99 said:

The Reformation was necessary because of the errors of the RCC. Not to mention the abuses. What the Reformers did was bring the Bible back to the people. Their desire was for "every plow boy" to have a copy so he could read it himself.

God's word was never meant to be hidden in a church, but to be read by all. No church should ever have a monopoly on it.

I believe the subject was interpitation. So I'm curious what your response is to:

You said "No we do not become our own interpreter. We must yield to the Holy Spirit." 

And I replied:

One of the fruits of the reformation is mass disunity within the Body of Christ. The concept of sola scriptura has produced this disunity. All denominations claim to be lead by the Holy Spirit and claim that the group they broke away from no longer was being lead by the Spirit.

There is ONE truth and ONE Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit can not be leading every single different Protestant to all kinds of different truths. So for me sola scriptura is a false doctrine because two reasons. Its not scriptural, and the fruit it produces is disunity. How can you have thousands of different protestants all claiming to be lead by the Holy Spirit all having different truths.

[Guest]

47 minutes ago, Swords99 said:

The Reformation was necessary because of the errors of the RCC. Not to mention the abuses. What the Reformers did was bring the Bible back to the people. Their desire was for "every plow boy" to have a copy so he could read it himself.

God's word was never meant to be hidden in a church, but to be read by all. No church should ever have a monopoly on it.

 

58 minutes ago, Swords99 said:

The Reformation was necessary because of the errors of the RCC. Not to mention the abuses. What the Reformers did was bring the Bible back to the people. Their desire was for "every plow boy" to have a copy so he could read it himself.

God's word was never meant to be hidden in a church, but to be read by all. No church should ever have a monopoly on it.

 

4 hours ago, Swords99 said:

Let scripture interpret scripture. Its all one unfolding story.

2 Peter 1:20-21

²⁰ knowing this first, that no prophecy of scripture is of ^[a]private interpretation. ²¹ For no prophecy ever ^[b]came by the will of man: but men spake from God, being moved by the Holy Spirit.

[Fidei Defensor]

On ‎6‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 7:16 AM, Judas Machabeus said:

Where does the ``Roman`` part of Roman Catholic come from and when was it first used

The sign outside my Church reads St George`s Roman Catholic Church. Roman is a rite, and more accurately its the Latin Rite and its one of 22 rites that make up the Catholic Church.

The Roman term was first used when the Roman Catholic Church began to break apart from Eastern Church prior to 1054 A.D. when two churches schism. It was term that denoted "The Roman Rite" oppose to "Byzantine Rite" of mass and services, and what language was being used helped foster the divide, those of Roman Rite using Latin, and those of Byzantine Rite using Greek. These two separate churches were one, and founded by Constantine who had both St. Peter's Basilica built in Rome, Italy and The Hagia Sophia (Church of Holy Wisdom) built in Constantinople (Istanbul), Turkey. The system of ecclesiology, rite, and beyond that the Roman Catholic Church uses is from Byzantine or Eastern Church, however it uses Latin and changed certain rituals to fit their understanding, an example being the Filoque, and other traditions. The Roman Catholic Church and Eastern Church were one church from 333 A.D. to 1054 A.D., but doctrinal, theological, and ethnic differences caused them to inevitably split and schism into different churches. 

-Citations: The Orthodox Church  by Bishop Kallisos/Timothy Ware, Church History in Plain Language by Bruce Shelley 4th Edition, The Orthodox Church Simple Guides by Katherine Clark, and Church History Made Easy by Timothy Paul Jones P.H.D. 

[KiwiChristian]

The true church isn't catholic or protestant. It doesn't have a mailing address or a zip code. It is the body of believers in Jesus Christ the world over. Christ has written their names in the book of life. Christ knows who His friends are.
 

[Fidei Defensor]

3 hours ago, KiwiChristian said:

The true church isn't catholic or protestant. It doesn't have a mailing address or a zip code. It is the body of believers in Jesus Christ the world over. Christ has written their names in the book of life. Christ knows who His friends are.
 

Yes and No. Protestantism says The Scriptures tell us how to rightly believe in Jesus and etc, while Catholicism and Orthodoxy have other books like Canon Law (50+ books, Catholic) and the Apostolic Fathers (Irenaeus, Clement, Barnabas, and more). Protestant is suppose to mean you adhere to what Bible says, known as Solae Scriptura (Scripture Alone defines right theology, doctrine, and etc.), while other churches follow Prima Scriptura (Scripture is a tradition among many, all traditions are equal). Problem with Prima is that you can anything relatively easy, there is no strong standard of guidelines to know what a Christian should believe to be saved (like John 3:16, John 6:40 being examples). 

Unfortunately, many Protestant denominations are no different than the High Churches, they have compromised the Bible with their neo-traditions (ordaining practicing homosexuals as elders, deacons, and bishops; conforming to Transgender, allow magic users to keep doing witchraft, allowing people to live together out of wedlock, sex out of wedlock), an example is the Mainstream Lutherans (the exception is Missouri Synod Lutherans), Methodists, branches of Catholicism, Ecumenical Eastern Orthodox, and beyond. 

I understand what you are saying, its not certain church style or ethnicity, we are All One in Christ (Colossians 3:11, Galatians 3:28). But the reason for separations and denominations is what people decide where to draw the line of compromise or what they will accept or not. Protestantism was suppose to be the Early Church of Bible returned, but it too still has corruption of Constantine strongly living in it. 

Edited June 27, 2017 by Fidei Defensor

[KiwiChristian]

16 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Yes and No. Protestantism says The Scriptures tell us how to rightly believe in Jesus and etc,

 

No, The Word of God tells us how to rightly believe in Jesus.

 

while Catholicism and Orthodoxy have other books like Canon Law (50+ books, Catholic) and the Apostolic Fathers (Irenaeus, Clement, Barnabas, and more).

Thats because they do not hold to the Bible.

 

Protestant is suppose to mean you adhere to what Bible says,

No, protestants are former catholics who left PROTESTING its anti-Christian teachings.

 

Unfortunately, many Protestant denominations are no different than the High Churches, 

Define "High Churches", please.

they have compromised the Bible with their neo-traditions (ordaining practicing homosexuals as elders, deacons, and bishops; conforming to Transgender, allow magic users to keep doing witchraft, allowing people to live together out of wedlock, sex out of wedlock), an example is the Mainstream Lutherans (the exception is Missouri Synod Lutherans), Methodists, branches of Catholicism, Ecumenical Eastern Orthodox, and beyond. 

I understand what you are saying, its not certain church style or ethnicity, we are All One in Christ (Colossians 3:11, Galatians 3:28). But the reason for separations and denominations is what people decide where to draw the line of compromise or what they will accept or not. Protestantism was suppose to be the Early Church of Bible returned, but it too still has corruption of Constantine strongly living in it. 

 

[Fidei Defensor]

1 minute ago, KiwiChristian said:

 

The Scriptures tell us what Word of God (John 1:1-15, Revelation 19:11-16) says. You don't even know to call Jesus the Word of God except for that He is called that in Scriptures (John 1:1-15, Revelation 19:11-16). The Scriptures are God breathed, "All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right. ¹⁷ God uses it to prepare and equip his people to do every good work," (1 Timothy 3:16-17). The Scriptures are testimony of Jesus and His Disciples, they are what HE the Word of God had written down. So how can you say we told what to believe by the Word of God, but you only know He's the Word of God because of Scripture? 

[KiwiChristian]

3 minutes ago, Fidei Defensor said:

The Scriptures tell us what Word of God (John 1:1-15, Revelation 19:11-16) says. You don't even know to call Jesus the Word of God except for that He is called that in Scriptures (John 1:1-15, Revelation 19:11-16). The Scriptures are God breathed, "All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right. ¹⁷ God uses it to prepare and equip his people to do every good work," (1 Timothy 3:16-17). The Scriptures are testimony of Jesus and His Disciples, they are what HE the Word of God had written down. So how can you say we told what to believe by the Word of God, but you only know He's the Word of God because of Scripture? 

i agree, but do not understand your question.