Swords99 Posted June 26, 2017 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 171 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 38 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/12/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted June 26, 2017 Someone once tried to describe the Trinity this way: Take water for example. It comes in 3 forms: liquid, vapor and ice. but it's all from the same source: water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOONE7 Posted June 26, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 11,715 Content Per Day: 4.59 Reputation: 9,752 Days Won: 106 Joined: 04/29/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted June 26, 2017 3 minutes ago, Swords99 said: Someone once tried to describe the Trinity this way: Take water for example. It comes in 3 forms: liquid, vapor and ice. but it's all from the same source: water. I've heard of this before. Nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOONE7 Posted June 26, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 11,715 Content Per Day: 4.59 Reputation: 9,752 Days Won: 106 Joined: 04/29/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted June 26, 2017 1 hour ago, fixerupper said: http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/articles/god/47-reasons-why-our-heavenly-father-has-no-equals-or-co-equals Jesus himself shows he's subordinate to the Father... Jesus called the Father “my God” both before and after his resurrection. Jesus told told Mary Magdalene to go to the brothers and tell them, “I ascend to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God” (John 20:17). Thus Jesus’ God is the same God as our God, the Father. Jesus said, “My Father is greater than I” (John 14:28). In opposition to the Trinity which says that the Father and the Son are “co-equal.” It was God who made Jesus “Lord.” Acts 2:36 says: “God has made this Jesus…both Lord and Christ.” “Lord” is not the same as “God.” In the future, the Son will be subject to the Father. 1 Cor. 15:28 says: “When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him [God] who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.” Jesus recognized that the Father was the only true God. In prayer, he said to God “…that they might know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent” (John 17:3). Jesus was “sanctified” by God. John 10:36 says: “Do you say of him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming’ because I said ‘I am the son of God’”? (NASB). Jesus was sanctified by God, but God does not need to be sanctified. Jesus did not consider himself equal with the Father. In John 5:19, he said, “The Son can do nothing by himself; he can only do what he sees his Father doing” (cp. v. 30 and John 8:28 and 12:49). 1 Corinthians 3:23 makes it clear that God is greater than Christ, just as Christ is greater than we are: “…and you belong to Christ; and Christ belongs to God” The Bible teaches: “Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God” (1 Cor 11:3). It is obvious from this verse and 1 Cor. 3:23, and the other verses above that the Trinitarian formula that Christ and God are “co-equal” is not biblical. It was God who did miracles and wonders through Christ. (Matt. 9:8; Acts 2:22; 10:38). If Christ were God, the Bible would simply say that Christ did the miracles himself without making reference to God. The fact that it was God supplying the power for the miracles shows that God is greater than Christ. http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/articles/god/47-reasons-why-our-heavenly-father-has-no-equals-or-co-equals Jesus was a servant of God but He also stated he came to serve all and even die for all. I'm glad you are hear for it is getting me to think always...a poking of my brain. As I always try to sharpen myself even if I might be wrong. Jesus stated the Father is greater then Him. But could this not be for just that time with regards to his 'human' nature and the position He had as a human. Jesus stated the Father is greater but if it was a statement in regards to overall power/ability/omnipotence then yeah...his human nature is what is probably being referenced and Him being a servant for the Father and for all even dying on the cross. But let say the above is wrong and Jesus was even speaking about the total power of the SON before being made human. Let's say it was the divinity of the SON speaking that His Father is greater? Would not a humble earth son always call his earth dad greater? Yet the statement of the Son with being ONE with the Father. Makes him equal to what is greater. But more on the humbleness of the Son and Father relationship. Or how about this line of reasoning. Jesus has been given all authority. Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Since your focus is on power, it states all power in heaven and in earth. Or how about this. John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: On that day the Father judges no person but committed all judgement unto the Son. The Father has given all to the Son and even Judgement that the Father will not do. By this line of reasoning who is greater if Jesus has this and the Father does not? Or how about this since you are using the word greater. Jesus used it another time with the miraculous. John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. If a believer on the LORD does a greater work then the ones Jesus did. Does that mean we our greater? I would think not. As finally Phillip asked Jesus to show him His 'greater' Father. So they can completely trust Him Jesus. John 14:12 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? Jesus showed Philip this GREATER ONE. Thanks for your posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOONE7 Posted June 26, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 11,715 Content Per Day: 4.59 Reputation: 9,752 Days Won: 106 Joined: 04/29/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted June 26, 2017 Also now that I think about it. There is a verse that states Jesus was made lower then the Angels. Does this mean Jesus is less then Angels? I do not think this is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted June 26, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,853 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,761 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted June 26, 2017 30 minutes ago, Yowm said: Can you walk and chew gum at the same time? You seem to discount the 'man' aspect of Jesus. You need to see BOTH... Philippians 2:5-7 KJV [5] Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: [6] Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: [7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: John 10:30 KJV [30] I and my Father are one. I am wondering if you believe those Scriptures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOONE7 Posted June 26, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 11,715 Content Per Day: 4.59 Reputation: 9,752 Days Won: 106 Joined: 04/29/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted June 26, 2017 1 minute ago, Yowm said: You made him for a little while lower than the angels; you have crowned him with glory and honor, putting everything in subjection under his feet." Now in putting everything in subjection to him, he left nothing outside his control. At present, we do not yet see everything in subjection to him. But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone. (Heb 2:7-9) Thanks!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 1 hour ago, Swords99 said: Someone once tried to describe the Trinity this way: Take water for example. It comes in 3 forms: liquid, vapor and ice. but it's all from the same source: water. Yes, but accurately represent the Trinity, the same water molecules would have be liquid, vapor and ice at the same time. There is no earthly point of reference for the Trinity. There is nothing in our human experience that serves as an adequate analogy because this is one of those things about God that is outside of our ability to comprehend. We cannot understand it because we are not meant to understand it at this time. God lives in a sphere of reality that transcends our own, and there are things about Him that are beyond our knowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swords99 Posted June 26, 2017 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 171 Content Per Day: 0.07 Reputation: 38 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/12/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted June 26, 2017 4 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: Yes, but accurately represent the Trinity, the same water molecules would have be liquid, vapor and ice at the same time. There is no earthly point of reference for the Trinity. There is nothing in our human experience that serves as an adequate analogy because this is one of those things about God that is outside of our ability to comprehend. We cannot understand it because we are not meant to understand it at this time. God lives in a sphere of reality that transcends our own, and there are things about Him that are beyond our knowing. Yep, I know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted June 26, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,853 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,761 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted June 26, 2017 1 hour ago, NOONE7 said: Thanks!!! What is this thanks, what is all about, to what exactly did you say thanks. Both opposing parties claim that these scriptures validate their stand, and how about The author , what does he have to say. Why did the author write this scripture. "You made him for a little while lower than the Angels" "You have Crown him with glory and honor Putting everything in subsection under his feet NOONH 7, maybe JESUS has made you a leader. How else would you know, Jesus has not give us the spirit of timidity, but of the power of the SOUND MIND. (not someone's else's, JESUS has given you your own gifts of discermen). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted June 26, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,853 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,761 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted June 26, 2017 1 hour ago, shiloh357 said: Yes, but accurately represent the Trinity, the same water molecules would have be liquid, vapor and ice at the same time. There is no earthly point of reference for the Trinity. There is nothing in our human experience that serves as an adequate analogy because this is one of those things about God that is outside of our ability to comprehend. We cannot understand it because we are not meant to understand it at this time. God lives in a sphere of reality that transcends our own, and there are things about Him that are beyond our knowing. What are saying that this is not an apostolic teaching. Then why are you using their scriptures. Whose point of view are you representing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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