Hell

[enoob57]

35 minutes ago, brakelite said:

This is one prime example of the illogical nonsensical interpretations of scripture which paint an absurd, insulting and blasphemous mischaracterization ofGod. 

You do realize dont you that the redeemed also are going to be in the presence of God and angels forever? So the wicked are to be tormented in our presence...forever??!!! Seriously?  And you truly believe that? Such entertainment will be joyful enrich our experience and enhance our appreciation of the love, mercy and grace of God no doubt.

Do you people ever seriously think about what you are saying? Come on all you who claim to know and understand God. How do you reconcile eternal torment with a just God? Think! How do you reconcile eternal torment with a God who has the power and will to eradicate sin from the universe? You seriously believe God plans to immortalize sin? Why? As a reminder of the pain He and His Son went through to take away sin and put down the rebellion? 

Oh right, no chance you would consider any other alternative doctrine on the Biblical punishment of the wicked...only cults like JWs and Adventists believe that way right? Nuh, too proud to consider that they may be reading the Bible correctly and you not. 

Sorry bout the sarcasm, but of all teachings this eternal torment error makes me so angry...because it insults my Savior. GET OVER IT!!! 

What God says will be no matter your will in the matter...

Matthew 6:10 (KJV)

[10] Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Yes The Word does speak for itself in the hermeneutic... most don't even know what that is! Which seems you as well!

Love, Steven

[HAZARD]

10 hours ago, brakelite said:

This is one prime example of the illogical nonsensical interpretations of scripture which paint an absurd, insulting and blasphemous mischaracterization ofGod. 

You do realize dont you that the redeemed also are going to be in the presence of God and angels forever? So the wicked are to be tormented in our presence...forever??!!! Seriously?  And you truly believe that? Such entertainment will be joyful enrich our experience and enhance our appreciation of the love, mercy and grace of God no doubt.

Do you people ever seriously think about what you are saying? Come on all you who claim to know and understand God. How do you reconcile eternal torment with a just God? Think! How do you reconcile eternal torment with a God who has the power and will to eradicate sin from the universe? You seriously believe God plans to immortalize sin? Why? As a reminder of the pain He and His Son went through to take away sin and put down the rebellion? 

Oh right, no chance you would consider any other alternative doctrine on the Biblical punishment of the wicked...only cults like JWs and Adventists believe that way right? Nuh, too proud to consider that they may be reading the Bible correctly and you not. 

Sorry bout the sarcasm, but of all teachings this eternal torment error makes me so angry...because it insults my Savior. GET OVER IT!!! 

You insult your saviour by denying what His Word says.

How do we reconcile eternal torment with a just God?

Rev. 14:9-11,   V. 9, And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 
   

v. 10, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone IN THE PRESENCE OF THE HOLY ANGELS, AND IN THE PRESENCE OF THE LAMB: 
   

v. 11, And the smoke of their torment ascendeth UP forever and ever:  and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

THEIR SMOKE ASCENDETH UP "FOR EVER AND EVER," FROM WHERE"  . . . . . "FROM HELL THATS WHERE."

And how long does their smoke ascendeth up? . . . . "FOREVER AND EVER," . . . . believe it or not, that's what God's Word clearly teaches.

Now how about you try and get over yourself! Kiwi in Melbourne.

[Riccardo]

brother Fixerupper,

Do you know what the Parable is about?  I'm not trying to be funny I would like to hear your opinion.

 

[Riccardo]

It would be a strange Christian sight if we didn't believe the bible was true .

But thats a strange comment & I know its direction & it has missed the mark again.

 

[brakelite]

3 hours ago, HAZARD said:

You insult your saviour by denying what His Word says.

How do we reconcile eternal torment with a just God?

Rev. 14:9-11,   V. 9, And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 
   

v. 10, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone IN THE PRESENCE OF THE HOLY ANGELS, AND IN THE PRESENCE OF THE LAMB: 
   

v. 11, And the smoke of their torment ascendeth UP forever and ever:  and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

THEIR SMOKE ASCENDETH UP "FOR EVER AND EVER," FROM WHERE"  . . . . . "FROM HELL THATS WHERE."

And how long does their smoke ascendeth up? . . . . "FOREVER AND EVER," . . . . believe it or not, that's what God's Word clearly teaches.

Now how about you try and get over yourself! Kiwi in Melbourne.

I know what that says, I've read it many times. To believe however that what it means is that for all eternity God, the angels, and us are going to be constantly witnessing the torturous screams and cries, the wailing and gnashing of teeth of countless millions of people many of whom will be our relations and some even our close friends, and somehow enjoying it without tears of either sympathy or sorrow, utterly and completely contradicts the rest of scripture regarding our eternal home and the rest of scripture regarding the character of God. Like I said, you need to think it through and cosider how that text and the few that are understood in a similar fashion, need to be revised.

Hint. The text you cite above says the SMOKE ascends forever, not that the torment lasts forever. Also, look up other instances in scripture where the text says "forever" and ask yourself, is that still happening?

[brakelite]

12 hours ago, fixerupper said:

The JW'S and Adventist have more right on the issue than you do.  You try to say Hazard mischaracterizes God, but I think he's on the right track.  You can accuse Haz of what you want but it's people on this forum mischaracterizing God by saying HIS Church will produce the anti-Christ that get under my skin.

How do you know I am not a JW or Adventist? And even if I weren't, can I not interpret scripture without recource to the church? Or do I rely on other men and their interpretations of scripture to define for me what is truth thus placing my eternal destiny in the hands of mortal men?

My post wasn't directed solely to the writer ofthe post, but to all people who mischaracterize God by claiming that His purpose and intent for sinners is to torment them for as long as God lives, thus finding no justice. Even mortal men in their sinful fallen condition find dictators who would torture those who rebel against them odious, obnoxious, and worthy of God's wrath...yet we characterize God with the same quality of evil!!!

As far as Antichrist goes....the teaching of scripture says that as the church falls away from the truth, and apostatizes by having relations with the kings and rulers of this world, it divorces itself fro her true Husband, is no longer God's church, and becomes Antichrist. This is the history of the papal church.

[HAZARD]

2 hours ago, brakelite said:

I know what that says, I've read it many times. To believe however that what it means is that for all eternity God, the angels, and us are going to be constantly witnessing the torturous screams and cries, the wailing and gnashing of teeth of countless millions of people many of whom will be our relations and some even our close friends, and somehow enjoying it without tears of either sympathy or sorrow, utterly and completely contradicts the rest of scripture regarding our eternal home and the rest of scripture regarding the character of God. Like I said, you need to think it through and cosider how that text and the few that are understood in a similar fashion, need to be revised.

Hint. The text you cite above says the SMOKE ascends forever, not that the torment lasts forever. Also, look up other instances in scripture where the text says "forever" and ask yourself, is that still happening?

My first reply:

Here's a few HINTS you may like to think about at your leisure.

There are many passages, teaching "ETERNAL TORMENT OF THE WICKED and you my friend in Christ are at liberty to ignore every one of them.

Revelation 20:10-15.   V. 10, And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone,  where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for EVER AND EVER. 
    11, And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
    12, And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
    13, And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
    14, And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
    15, And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.  (There's only one lake of fire).

Revelation 21:8, 8, But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone:

Isaiah 66:22-24, V. 22, For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain, 

V 23, And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
   

V. 24, AND THEY SALL GO FORTH, AND LOOK UPON THE CARCASES OF THE MEN WHO HAVE TRANSGRESSED AGAINST ME: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Men in the new earth will be able to "look upon the men that have transgressed" and are suffering punishment with the devil and his angels, as an everlasting monument of God's wrath on sin.

 

Matthew 13: 41-42. V. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
    42, And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 25: 41, Then shall He say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from Me, ye cursed, into EVERLASTING FIRE,  prepared for the devil and his angels:

And Verse 46, And these shall go away into EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT:   but the righteous into life eternal. 

Mark 9:43-49,  " the fire is not quenched." mentioned six times.

Luke 16:19-31.

Revelation 14:10, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of HIS INDIGNATION; and he shall be TORMENTED WITH FIRE AND BRIMSTONE IN THE PRESENCE OF THE HOLY ANGELS, IN THE PRESENCE OF THE LAMB: 

Is it any wonder that God will be so indignant when men will reject His written Word, refuse to repent when judgments from Heaven are sent upon them (Rev. 9:20-21; 16:9, 11), reject the preaching of real angels flying in the midst of heaven (14:6-11), and ignore the preaching and miracles done by the two witnesses and multitudes of Christians who will receive the outpouring of the Holy Spirit and the enduement of power to do miracles (Acts 2:16-21; Rev. 11:3-12; 12:17; 19:10).

My friend, the Bible is a simple book to understand because it was given by God to be understood by the simple. Following the commonly accepted argument that a perfect God cannot make anything imperfect, we can scripturally say that God did not fail in His purpose of giving man a simple revelation that could be easily understood by all men alike, even by the simple (Deut. 29:29; Ps. 119:104, 140; Proverbs 1:1-4; 2 Timothy 3:15-17). Paul speaks of "the simplicity that is in Christ" (2 Cor. 11:3). Jesus thanked God that the truths of the Bible were hidden from the worldly wise who refused to believe, and stated that God has "revealed them unto babes" (Matt. 11:25-27). He gives the reason truths are hidden from anyone. It is because they refuse to humble themselves to believe and conform to the Bible (Matt.13:10-17). Jesus speaks of the devil taking the Word from the hearts of men lest it should bring forth fruit (Matt. 13:19-23. Paul also speaks of the devil blinding the minds of men lest they should believe, and he also speaks of men wilfully handling the Word of God dishonestly and deceitfully (2 Cor. 4:1-6).

The most simple beginners can understand the Bible one line at a time, for this is the way it was given, and it is the best way to understand it (Isa. 28:9-13). No man can get the vastness of the Bible at once. It is the infinite scope of the Bible truth that causes some men to think the Bible is hard to understand. Its like someone saying they cannot understand water because they cannot drink the whole ocean dry in one drink.

 

 

[HAZARD]

2 hours ago, brakelite said:

I know what that says, I've read it many times. To believe however that what it means is that for all eternity God, the angels, and us are going to be constantly witnessing the torturous screams and cries, the wailing and gnashing of teeth of countless millions of people many of whom will be our relations and some even our close friends, and somehow enjoying it without tears of either sympathy or sorrow, utterly and completely contradicts the rest of scripture regarding our eternal home and the rest of scripture regarding the character of God. Like I said, you need to think it through and cosider how that text and the few that are understood in a similar fashion, need to be revised.

Hint. The text you cite above says the SMOKE ascends forever, not that the torment lasts forever. Also, look up other instances in scripture where the text says "forever" and ask yourself, is that still happening?

My second reply:

For you my friend, . . . . How can we tell if the language is literal of figurative? This is one of the most simple questions to answer. 

Any man or woman with ordinary intelligence between the two ways of expressing the truth. The one fundamental rule to determine whether language is literal or figurative is this.

Take every statement in the Bible as literal when it is at all possible and where it is clear that it is literal, otherwise, it is figurative. In other words, what cannot be literal must be figurative. The subject matter itself as expressed in human language will always make this clear. One must be sure the language if figurative before giving it a figurative meaning. If it seems hard to determine by the words of the subject matter, then Scriptures on the same subject will clear up the difficulty. There are always plain literal statements in the Bible proving every doctrine, so if a figurative statement is found in the Bible on the same  subject, explain the figurative passage with the literal passages.

Remember, no figure of speech ever does away with the literal truth, but merely expresses it in another way. Figures of speech are of two main kinds; first, those involving only a word as in Gal. 2:9 where Peter, James, and John are called "pillars" of the church; second, those involving thought expressed in several words, or sentences, as the parable, allegory, symbol, type, riddle, fable, enigma, etc. With a knowledge of the general plan of God, what the Scriptures are, and how to interpret them, we can study the Bible and its eternal plan for mankind. Without a general knowledge of the entire plan of God for mankind we are faced with contradictions, opposition against God's Word which tries to turn men away from the truths God wants men to get in order for them to be blessed."
 
Every person who has any knowledge of these forms of human expression should understand the Bible just as he does any other books. All these forms of human expression were used by God in giving His revelations of all things and of Himself. He used them for the same purpose as men do, to convey literal truths. All men can understand the Bible alike on the same grounds on which they understand other books where these forms of human language are used if they will be sensible about the Bible as they are with other books.
 
Men do not SPIRITUALISE other books or make every literal statement in the SYMBOLIC and MYSTICAL, and there is no excuse for us to do this with Bible truths.
When such human language is used in other books, men do not differ so much. They do not make them mean anything that they want the to mean. They are sensible with the writings of others and put forth every effort to get the intended idea of the author, but when it comes to the Bible the intent of God as plainly stated means nothing to the average person. Just so each person can change and interpret to suit himself, he thinks that his interpretation must be the truth of the Bible.

This method of interpretation is nothing less than satanic opposition against God which tries to turn men away from the truths God wants them to get in order for them to be blessed. If Satan can succeed in his purpose, God and His Word will be discredited, and men will pay little heed to what is written. Men will not be held guiltless for this attitude.

[kwikphilly]

Quote

I would say an unimaginable place... Just the fact that God will not be there but in His wrath speaks volumes! One need only to think of the daily needs God has created us to have of Him: thirst, hunger, love, joy, peace, rest, companionship, purpose etc. -> now remove yourself from fulfillment of this short incomplete list...                      enoob

[missmuffet]

Question: "What does hell look like? How hot is hell?"

Answer: We cannot know exactly what hell looks like or how hot it will be. But Scripture does use some descriptive language of hell, and that gives us an idea of what hell will be like. It is sure to be a place of torment, which the Bible often pictures as fiery. For the purposes of this article, the terms hell and lake of fire are used interchangeably.

Some interpreters take the Bible’s descriptions of hell to be symbolic, because some of the descriptions are difficult to reconcile with each other. For example, picturing hell as both fire (Matthew 25:41) and outer darkness (Matthew 8:12) seems paradoxical. Of course, the God of the impossible can do anything, including make dark fire. So, the descriptions could be literal. Even if the language describing hell is symbolic, the place itself is real—and the reality will no doubt be worse than the symbols.

The scriptural descriptions of hell are meant to emphasize the torment and suffering that will be experienced by those sent there. The “fire” may picture the wrath of God that is experienced by unbelievers in hell, whereas the “outer darkness” may picture the alienation from God’s love, mercy, and grace. Whether the vivid language is symbolic or literal, we can be assured that hell is a terrible, terrifying place. Possibly the most terrifying aspect of hell is its duration. The suffering is eternal. It has no end. For us, here and now, the concept of hell should drive us to the cross of Christ. It is only by repentance and faith in Christ that we can be saved from the wrath to come.

Here are some of the passages that describe hell:

Matthew 25:41, “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.’”

Matthew 8:12, “But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

2 Thessalonians 1:6–9, “God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might.”

Revelation 20:10, 15, “And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. . . . Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.”

Romans 2:8, “But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.”

Matthew 25:30, “And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Hell, although we do not know exactly what it will look like, will be a place of unending suffering and torment from which there will be no escape. Therefore, now is the day of salvation. Now is the day for all to repent and believe the gospel. Now is the day for us to proclaim the good news that Christ has come to save sinners who trust in Him for forgiveness. Those who look to Christ now will be saved from the wrath to come (1 Thessalonians 1:9–10).
https://www.gotquestions.org/what-does-hell-look-like.html