Spiritual or Physical Death

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, Marilyn C said:

Hi Shiloh,Oh yes it is, very mystical to think those `natural things` can give life or turn by themselves.

 

I never said they could give life and Cherubim are not "mystical"  they are angels.

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As to those historic events they are all within the scope of the natural environment controlled by God.

Still, they are historical and not mystical or metaphorical.   You simply have nothing from the text to demand we understand the text as anything but literal history.

 

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Genesis 3 does have other symbols - eg the serpent. Now that is not just a snake, from the natural environment, we know from scripture precisely that it is Satan himself. ` So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old...` (Rev. 12: 9)

Marilyn.

 

The Serpent wasn't symbolic either.  He was real.  That was a real event and all of the characters are historical.  Need to take God at His word instead of apply false values to the parts you don't want to believe.

[Marilyn C]

Just now, shiloh357 said:

I never said they could give life and Cherubim are not "mystical"  they are angels.

Still, they are historical and not mystical or metaphorical.   You simply have nothing from the text to demand we understand the text as anything but literal history.

 

The Serpent wasn't symbolic either.  He was real.  That was a real event and all of the characters are historical.  Need to take God at His word instead of apply false values to the parts you don't want to believe.

Hi Shiloh,

`Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which God had made. And he said to the woman, ...` (Gen. 3: 1)

So are you now telling me that this serpent, which in the narrative, as you say, is a snake and can talk?

Marilyn.

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, Marilyn C said:

Hi Shiloh,

`Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which God had made. And he said to the woman, ...` (Gen. 3: 1)

So are you now telling me that this serpent, which in the narrative, as you say, is a snake and can talk?

Marilyn.

That's what the Bible says and I take God at His word.  I don't challenge His integrity.   I believe in the doctrine of the inerrancy of Scripture.  Inerrancy means that if the Bible says it happened, it happened and it happened the way the Bible says it happened.

 

[Marilyn C]

1 minute ago, shiloh357 said:

That's what the Bible says and I take God at His word.  I don't challenge His integrity.   I believe in the doctrine of the inerrancy of Scripture.  Inerrancy means that if the Bible says it happened, it happened and it happened the way the Bible says it happened.

 

So bro are you saying that you believe -

a snake can talk,

a sword can move by itself,

a tree can give life?

really?????

[Guest shiloh357]

5 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

So bro are you saying that you believe -

a snake can talk,

I believe THAT snake could talk, because it did. I also believe that Balaam's donkey spoke, too. And I believe the Jonah was in the belly of the great fish for three days and three nights.

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a sword can move by itself,

And I believe there were cherubim with it, as it turned. 
 

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a tree can give life?

really?????

 

I said that I don't know what the purpose of the tree was prior to the Fall.  Adam and Eve were immortal before the fall, and so it probably served a different purpose at that time.  It would have had a different effect on them in their fallen condition and they would not have died and man would have been forever doomed to eternal destruction.

That's what we get from the Bible.

Why do you find it so hard to just believe the Bible?

[Marilyn C]

20 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

I believe THAT snake could talk, because it did. I also believe that Balaam's donkey spoke, too. And I believe the Jonah was in the belly of the great fish for three days and three nights.

And I believe there were cherubim with it, as it turned. 
 

I said that I don't know what the purpose of the tree was prior to the Fall.  Adam and Eve were immortal before the fall, and so it probably served a different purpose at that time.  It would have had a different effect on them in their fallen condition and they would not have died and man would have been forever doomed to eternal destruction.

That's what we get from the Bible.

Why do you find it so hard to just believe the Bible?

Hi Shiloh,

I don`t find it hard to believe God`s word, just hard to believe your thoughts on it.

You know perfectly well that God gives the explanation of `the serpent,` the snake - Satan. (Rev. 12: 9 - So the great dragon...that serpent of old called the Devil and Satan.`)

The cherubim were at the east end, while the sword was guarding the tree of life.

`God...placed cherubim at the east of the garden,

and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.` (Gen. 3: 24)

God does explain what `the tree of life` is. When one `eats,` one live for ever.

` God said .....and now lest he (man) put out his hand and take also from the tree of life, and live forever" (Gen. 3: 22)

 

So again bro it seems to me you are not understanding God`s word. Eternal life only, yes only comes through the Lord, not a tree. It is symbolic of the Lord providing nourishment to their/our bodies and spirits. it is the very life of Christ.

`And so it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.` (1 Cor. 15: 45)

 

Marilyn.

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, Marilyn C said:

Hi Shiloh,

I don`t find it hard to believe God`s word, just hard to believe your thoughts on it.

Well, my thoughts on it are that God's word is true and things happened just as God said they did.   You obviously have a problem with believing God's word.

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You know perfectly well that God gives the explanation of `the serpent,` the snake - Satan. (Rev. 12: 9 - So the great dragon...that serpent of old called the Devil and Satan.`)

So what?  Nothing I have said contradicts that.

 

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The cherubim were at the east end, while the sword was guarding the tree of life.

`God...placed cherubim at the east of the garden,

and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.` (Gen. 3: 24)

 

Yes, and I said I believe that and I believe  it is a literal historical fact/event.   I have no problem taking that to mean exactly what it says because God doesn't lie.

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God does explain what `the tree of life` is. When one `eats,` one live for ever.

That is true.  In Adam's fallen state, he was mortal and the tree of life would have rendered him immortal.  I already acknowledged that, previously. 

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So again bro it seems to me you are not understanding God`s word. Eternal life only, yes only comes through the Lord, not a tree.

The tree doesn't impart eternal life.  It imparts immortal life.  Eternal life is what Adam had before the fall and lost.   The tree of life would have made him immortal, forever but in a state of sin. So while living forever, he would not have had eternal life and would have been eternally cursed.

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it is symbolic of the Lord providing nourishment to their/our bodies and spirits. it is the very life of Christ.

`And so it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.` (1 Cor. 15: 45)

No, that is just something you're making up.  The Bible doesn't say that tree of life is symbolic or metaphorical of God giving us life.  The tree of life didn't give eternal life, so it cannot represent Jesus.

You need to start just believing the Bible instead of making up this faux theological nonsense.

[Marilyn C]

5 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

 

Hi Shiloh,

I think we`ve both said our piece. And I believe we should take note of what the Holy Spirit said through our dear humble bro, hmbld -

Proverbs 3:18. Wisdom is a tree of life to those who embrace her; happy are those who hold her tightly.

what is wisdom but Christ.

The Lord Himself said - `The Queen of the South will rise up in the judgment with this generation and condemn it, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and indeed a greater than Solomon is here.` (Matt. 12: 42)

King Solomon was the wisest man on earth yet here the Lord says that He is greater. Thus we know that He has all wisdom, and wisdom is likened to a `tree of life.`

Even as believers He is our wisdom.

`But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God - ....` (1 Cor. 1 : 30)

....it is written, "He who glories, let Him glory in the Lord.` (v. 31)

Marilyn.

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, Marilyn C said:

Hi Shiloh,

I think we`ve both said our piece. And I believe we should take note of what the Holy Spirit said through our dear humble bro, hmbld -

Proverbs 3:18. Wisdom is a tree of life to those who embrace her; happy are those who hold her tightly.

what is wisdom but Christ.

Yes, but it is not THE tree of life in Genesis, just to be clear.

 

[Marilyn C]

7 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

Yes, but it is not THE tree of life in Genesis, just to be clear.

 

There is none greater Shiloh, and that you know well.

Marilyn.