Tongues

[Paul James]

10 hours ago, Daniel Marsh said:

If one desires to serve others they should seek one or more of the gifts.     If you want to grow go beyond tongues. 

When Paul made the comparison between tongues and prophecy he was limiting it to public meetings in the church.  Paul was abundantly clear that outside of church meetings he spoke in tongues more than them all, and he desired they all spoke in tongues.  So it is quite clear that he did not view tongues as a "lower" or, as you are implying, inferior.  So you need to be careful to keep to what Paul actually says about tongues, rather than put words into his mouth he never said.

Also, seeing that tongues was a prominent part of his personal prayer life, and he said in 1 Corinthians 14:2 that when a person, including himself, spoke in tongues he spoke to God and that no man understands him (so not understandable languages to preach the gospel) but he speaks mysteries in the Spirit.  So Paul obviously didn't go "beyond" tongues as if having the gift limited his spiritual development.  He went much deeper into God than any of us to the extent that what he taught became Holy Spirit inspired Scripture.  So your statement about progressing beyond tongues is meaningless, and adding to Scripture that is just not there.

Edited May 5, 2020 by Paul James

[leah777]

Quote

 

1 corinthians 14 v 5

5 I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified.

 

Have you not read this part? Prophesy is greater than tongues, and Paul recognizes that not all speak in tongues. Quoting a whole passage, not only a scripture, gives more understanding of the meaning.

Quote

1 Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 

2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. 

3 But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men. 

4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 

5 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification. NKJV

Reading the entire chapter is better to help you understand the distribution and levels of gifts.

[Daniel Marsh]

On 5/4/2020 at 6:01 PM, Paul James said:

You see, there is a difference between saying that the gift of tongues is not for you because you don't believe it is God's will for you;  and teaching others that it shouldn't be God's will for them.  If you are doing this, then you are treading on dangerous ground, because you are telling people not to receive a gift that God may very well be intending to give;  and by giving teaching against tongues, you can corrupt a person's faith so that God's desire to give them the gift is frustrated.   Paul warned people not to be many teachers, because at the judgment, the judgment on teachers will be much stricter, because giving teaching to others bears a much greater responsibility than just stating a personal opinion.   I think that God is very unhappy with those who frustrate His grace in the gifts and blessings He intends to give to those who seek Him.

One thing they should be aware of is called "priming the pump"   where someone tells you to repeat after them.   That is clearly against how it happened in scripture.

 

 

[Daniel Marsh]

has anyone ever published sentice, paragraph outlining, diagraming on I cor 12-14?

 

http://www.biblicalexpositor.org/home/180007636/180007636/Audio/Lesson 5-GRAMMATICAL ANALYSIS.pdf

https://digitalcommons.liberty.edu/outline_chapters_bible/   outlines exist, but not Grammatical Analysis. 

Edited May 6, 2020 by Daniel Marsh

[Daniel Marsh]

On 5/5/2020 at 5:49 AM, Paul James said:

When Paul made the comparison between tongues and prophecy he was limiting it to public meetings in the church.  Paul was abundantly clear that outside of church meetings he spoke in tongues more than them all, and he desired they all spoke in tongues.  So it is quite clear that he did not view tongues as a "lower" or, as you are implying, inferior.  So you need to be careful to keep to what Paul actually says about tongues, rather than put words into his mouth he never said.

Also, seeing that tongues was a prominent part of his personal prayer life, and he said in 1 Corinthians 14:2 that when a person, including himself, spoke in tongues he spoke to God and that no man understands him (so not understandable languages to preach the gospel) but he speaks mysteries in the Spirit.  So Paul obviously didn't go "beyond" tongues as if having the gift limited his spiritual development.  He went much deeper into God than any of us to the extent that what he taught became Holy Spirit inspired Scripture.  So your statement about progressing beyond tongues is meaningless, and adding to Scripture that is just not there.

The context of I cor 12-14  is in church, not out of church.

[Behold]

On 5/5/2020 at 4:49 AM, Paul James said:

When Paul made the comparison between tongues and prophecy he was limiting it to public meetings in the church.  Paul was abundantly clear that outside of church meetings he spoke in tongues more than them all, and he desired they all spoke in tongues.  So it is quite clear that he did not view tongues as a "lower"

In the context of talking about "tongues" Paul said, "seek earnestly the best Gifts"

1 Cor 12.

So, there are better, as defined by "best Gifts", according to Paul.

Notice where its located in the List.  Its the last. 

So, #1 is the "best", which is "word of Wisdom"

[Paul James]

3 hours ago, Daniel Marsh said:

The context of I cor 12-14  is in church, not out of church.

Granted.  But the problem is that Paul spoke in tongues more than them all, yet not in church.  So, how does that figure?

[Paul James]

7 hours ago, Behold said:

In the context of talking about "tongues" Paul said, "seek earnestly the best Gifts"

1 Cor 12.

So, there are better, as defined by "best Gifts", according to Paul.

Notice where its located in the List.  Its the last. 

So, #1 is the "best", which is "word of Wisdom"

It is interesting that you are not prepared to address the fact that Paul spoke in tongues more than anyone, and that his preference was they that all spoke in tongues.

[Behold]

6 hours ago, Paul James said:

It is interesting that you are not prepared to address the fact that Paul spoke in tongues more than anyone, and that his preference was they that all spoke in tongues.

Im prepared to address anything you can possibly think of.....no worries.

And when you realize that Paul had the "Signs of an Apostle", and you do not......and Paul was gifted by the Lord to do more by himself then all the other 11 Apostles combined, and that is not the average believer, and the fact that Paul died and went to heaven, and came back....

Listen, you can't equate your personal Christian Experience with someone like Paul......as this man was given more......He had more.....He was a much more elevated Spiritual person then the average believer, so, when he talks about something that he can do , that is more then the average Christian can do...then he could list a lot more then "tongues" that they will also never be able to do as MUCH.

So, you have to keep some context on some things.....and trying to compare the mystical spirituality that Paul maintained as if this is "normal christianity" is really missing the big picture, totally. by about a mile.

Edited May 7, 2020 by Behold

[Daniel Marsh]

On 5/7/2020 at 6:05 AM, Paul James said:

It is interesting that you are not prepared to address the fact that Paul spoke in tongues more than anyone, and that his preference was they that all spoke in tongues.

Paul's point was he rather speak five words in a language people understand.

1 Corinthians 14:18-19  I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

The contrast shows that tongues is a language that is not known to the speaker. 

1 Corinthians 14:6Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
 
1 Corinthians 14:9So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.