creativemechanic Posted October 5, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 414 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 1,273 Content Per Day: 0.36 Reputation: 518 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/22/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted October 5, 2017 I recently listened to a sermon. The pastor pointed out thatwe should be very careful of falling into the trap of thinking we are saved when we really aren't. Or some people think they are saved because they did something like obey parts the bible but never actually came to a place of acceptance or repentance. He then indicated that some people have even gone to bible college only to doscover while there that they weren't saved. While some actually came to the point of repentance, it is terrifying to think that some people actually think theyre saved based on church traditions or man made rules. A pastor even write himself that the religious regularly attending church goer is the hardest person to witness to. Case in point - I sent out a group email to people about the need to be saved, i got a response from a person saying they've already been confirmed. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted October 5, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,853 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,761 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted October 5, 2017 Reading your post, it reminded me of what the apostle Paul was saying all along to people who stopped being idolaters and believed in Jesus Christ. That time it was easier for those who had come out from the idolartic cultures to understand him, and they did, (most of them). One example is the Warden of the Jail in Philippine. It may seem strange and if it does it is because of a number of reasons. You may also consider what else happened in the city of Philippi. About the young girl who followed Paul, and was saying to people that what Paul was saying is truth, and the people seemed to understand what Paul was saying and what the young girl was referring to. If you make your search you will find out that the idolaters of that time, specifically the Greeks and the Romans knew the truth about something, they knew the truth of what happened to people after they died. And that's was the main reason why they believed in Jesus Christ. And why they called him their Savior. I emphasize that those who believe in Jesus Christ they call him their Savior, and not only for them selves, but they call him the Savior and not only for their ansestors who had died before them, but also for everyone else who had died before Jesus Christ died, and were the first people to believe and be saved. Those people Jesus Christ Saved from Hades, because that's where they were, and that's where Jesus Christ found them when he went to Hades after his death on the Cross. The People of that time understood something, that God gave Jesus Christ the Heaven as his inheritance after he raised him from the dead, and not only for him, but for anyone who believes in him. And that's was the main reason why they believed, so as to belong to Jesus and go to Heaven. Versus belonging to Hades, and serving other Gods while they lived on earth, but at the time of their death they went to whom they belong to, to the God of the underworld Hades. So they believed in the inheritor of Heaven, as to belong and go to Heaven at the time of their death. Those who did not believed at first, they were called to reppent from their unbelief and come to believe. Or come to the faith of Jesus Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMatrixHasU71 Posted October 5, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,573 Content Per Day: 0.51 Reputation: 723 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/10/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted October 5, 2017 3 hours ago, creativemechanic said: I recently listened to a sermon. The pastor pointed out thatwe should be very careful of falling into the trap of thinking we are saved when we really aren't. Or some people think they are saved because they did something like obey parts the bible but never actually came to a place of acceptance or repentance. He then indicated that some people have even gone to bible college only to doscover while there that they weren't saved. While some actually came to the point of repentance, it is terrifying to think that some people actually think theyre saved based on church traditions or man made rules. A pastor even write himself that the religious regularly attending church goer is the hardest person to witness to. Case in point - I sent out a group email to people about the need to be saved, i got a response from a person saying they've already been confirmed. Sounds like a Paul Washer sermon you may have been listening to. He talks a lot like that. And he is right. There are many out there who think all you have to do is just pray the prayer, say the right words and bang, boom you are saved, and even if you continue to live an unregenerate life you arent going to hell. Its more than just the words, its about a change of heart. We are supposed to be new creations in Christ who do not want to sin any more (exept for the fact that we will all make mistakes occasionally, but that is different from sinning with impunity) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted October 5, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 8 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,853 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,761 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted October 5, 2017 2 hours ago, TheMatrixHasU71 said: Sounds like a Paul Washer sermon you may have been listening to. He talks a lot like that. And he is right. There are many out there who think all you have to do is just pray the prayer, say the right words and bang, boom you are saved, and even if you continue to live an unregenerate life you arent going to hell. Its more than just the words, its about a change of heart. We are supposed to be new creations in Christ who do not want to sin any more (exept for the fact that we will all make mistakes occasionally, but that is different from sinning with impunity) This is the talk of those who support an argument that is not in the scriptures. They insist to ignore that the scripture says. " with the heart man believes unto the righteousness of Jesus Christ ". Romans 10:9,10. They bound the redeemed of Jesus Christ, to live with the fear of death. They preach that Heaven is only for the self righteous together with faith in Jesus Christ. Those who believe in Jesus Christ are free from the fear of death. Jesus Christ is our righteousness and our peace with God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrior12 Posted October 5, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 54 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,428 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 1,516 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/05/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted October 5, 2017 Well Yowm hit the nail on the head and asked the pertinent question. There are many variations as to how some hold proof of their salvation as in some circles it's if you speak in tongues, others they felt the holy spirit and he guides them. If the pastor made that statement , then he should give the answer as to how one is sure that he is a saved soul and could the pastor actually tell if a person is indeed saved. Me, i say that is between a man and his maker as we have seen countless times the mighty that held high positions and which led millons, fell and had been living false to their profession. A man hope is lost at the day of his death, until then the grace of God is available to him. True gold when it is tested in the fire, comes out even shining more brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMatrixHasU71 Posted October 5, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 21 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,573 Content Per Day: 0.51 Reputation: 723 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/10/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted October 5, 2017 1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said: This is the talk of those who support an argument that is not in the scriptures. They insist to ignore that the scripture says. " with the heart man believes unto the righteousness of Jesus Christ ". Romans 10:9,10. They bound the redeemed of Jesus Christ, to live with the fear of death. They preach that Heaven is only for the self righteous together with faith in Jesus Christ. Those who believe in Jesus Christ are free from the fear of death. Jesus Christ is our righteousness and our peace with God. There is such a thing as talking the talk and walking the walk. Do you remember what James said about faith without works is dead? What I said is perfectly scriptural. I could explain more but only have a couple of minutes. So that will have to wait till tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted October 5, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.81 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted October 5, 2017 Yes, there are many counterfeit Christians who really are not saved. Question: "What are some of the signs of genuine saving faith?" Answer: This is one of the most important questions in the Christian life. Many believers doubt their salvation because they don’t see signs of genuine faith in their lives. There are those who say we should never doubt our decision to follow Christ, but the Bible encourages us to examine ourselves to see if we are truly “in the faith” (2 Corinthians 13:5). Thankfully, God has given us ample instruction for how we can know for sure that we have eternal life. The first epistle of John was actually written for that purpose, as it states in 1 John 5:13, "I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life." There is a series of tests in 1 John that we can use to examine ourselves and our faith. As we look at them, remember that no one will perfectly fulfill all of them all the time, but they should reveal a consistent trend that characterizes our lives as we grow in grace. 1. Do you enjoy having fellowship with Christ and His redeemed people? (1 John 1:3) 2. Would people say you walk in the light, or walk in the darkness? (1 John 1:6-7) 3. Do you admit and confess your sin? (1 John 1:8) 4. Are you obedient to God's Word? (1 John 2:3-5) 5. Does your life indicate you love God rather than the world? (1 John 2:15) 6. Is your life characterized by "doing what is right"? (1 John 2:29) 7. Do you seek to maintain a pure life? (1 John 3:3) 8. Do you see a decreasing pattern of sin in your life? (1 John 3:5-6) [Note: this refers to not continuing in sin as a way of life, not a total absence of sin.] 9. Do you demonstrate love for other Christians? (1 John 3:14) 10. Do you "walk the walk," versus just "talking the talk"? (1 John 3:18-19) 11. Do you maintain a clear conscience? (1 John 3:21) 12. Do you experience victory in your Christian walk? (1 John 5:4) If you are able to truthfully answer "Yes" to these questions (or a majority of them, and are working on the others), then your life is bearing the fruit of true salvation. Jesus said that it is by our fruits that we are known as His disciples (Matthew 7:20). Fruitless branches—professing believers who do not display the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23) are cut off and thrown into the fire (John 15:7). A genuine faith is one that not only believes in God (the devils themselves do that - James 2:19), but leads to open confession of sin and obedience to Christ's commands. Remember, we are saved by grace through faith, not by our works (Ephesians 2:8-9), but our works should display the reality of our salvation (James 2:17-18). Genuine saving faith will always produce works; a faith that is perpetually without works is no faith at all and saves no one. In addition to these confirmations, we need to remember God's promises and the reality of the war we are in. Satan is just as real as Jesus Christ, and he is a formidable enemy of our souls. When we turn to Christ, Satan will look for every opportunity to deceive and defeat us. He will try to convince us that we are unworthy failures or that God has given up on us. When we are in Christ, we have the assurance that we are kept by Him. Jesus Himself prayed for us in John 17:11 that the Father would "protect them by the power of your name—the name you gave me—so that they may be one as we are one." Again in verse 15, He prayed, "keep them from the evil one." In John 10:27-29, Jesus said, "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand." If you hear and obey the voice of Jesus, then you are one of His sheep, and He will never let you go. Jesus gave a wonderful word picture here of Christians securely held within His loving hands and the Father's almighty hands wrapping themselves around His, giving us a double assurance of eternal security.https://www.gotquestions.org/signs-saving-faith.html 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted October 5, 2017 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.81 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted October 5, 2017 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinitin Posted October 5, 2017 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 13 Topic Count: 51 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,366 Content Per Day: 0.78 Reputation: 2,150 Days Won: 9 Joined: 01/10/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted October 5, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, creativemechanic said: I recently listened to a sermon. The pastor pointed out thatwe should be very careful of falling into the trap of thinking we are saved when we really aren't. Or some people think they are saved because they did something like obey parts the bible but never actually came to a place of acceptance or repentance. He then indicated that some people have even gone to bible college only to doscover while there that they weren't saved. While some actually came to the point of repentance, it is terrifying to think that some people actually think theyre saved based on church traditions or man made rules. A pastor even write himself that the religious regularly attending church goer is the hardest person to witness to. Case in point - I sent out a group email to people about the need to be saved, i got a response from a person saying they've already been confirmed. Life isn't an object frozen in space and time moved from this place to that and neither is life in Christ. We are participants in the kingdom of God through Christ Jesus and our testimony of the Lord Jesus Christ is heavenly seed for eternal life. The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit. I always felt we just keep laboring in the harvest. Extending our hands to those in need and let Jesus save all those he can. Bible says for us not not to say in our heart "who will ascend into heaven?" We can offer through Christ forgiveness of sins, a new life, a hope for eternal life, a just and righteous Lord who has all authority in heaven and on earth, We can offer healing for wounded souls, acceptance to the rejected, faithfulness to the abandoned, loyalty to the betrayed, A Priest and King that lives and loves us and a home in the eternal heavenly kingdom of God. We can encourage faith, affirm faith, compel, warn, pray and have faith. But, at the end of the day it is up to us, each individual person to take the faith meassured unto us and invest it in Christ Jesus and leave it in Christ Jesus the Son of God. Edited October 5, 2017 by Reinitin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vlad Posted October 5, 2017 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 470 Content Per Day: 0.09 Reputation: 171 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/02/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/07/1946 Share Posted October 5, 2017 8 hours ago, creativemechanic said: I recently listened to a sermon. The pastor pointed out thatwe should be very careful of falling into the trap of thinking we are saved when we really aren't. Or some people think they are saved because they did something like obey parts the bible but never actually came to a place of acceptance or repentance. He then indicated that some people have even gone to bible college only to doscover while there that they weren't saved. While some actually came to the point of repentance, it is terrifying to think that some people actually think theyre saved based on church traditions or man made rules. A pastor even write himself that the religious regularly attending church goer is the hardest person to witness to. Case in point - I sent out a group email to people about the need to be saved, i got a response from a person saying they've already been confirmed. I guess it is natural for some people to seek comfort even where there is no comfort. It steadies the nerve. Only the Lord knows who is saved. Besides when we think that our actions would be approved by Jesus we are often far from the truth. Talking about perfection. The apostles as you know were direct followers and they had their possessions in common and were sharing everything. We are very far from that. Once I met a very zealous preacher, a Jehovah Witness. And as he said that the kingdom was at hand, may be the next day, I asked him why did not they live in a community like the apostles to be prepared to meet the Savior the best proper way. He suddenly became sad, lost his vigor as that youth (Matthew 19, 22) and said they were humans after all and there were families, and children, and college, and career etc. So what can I add? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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