Justin Adams Posted October 27, 2017 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 25 Topic Count: 61 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 9,605 Content Per Day: 3.98 Reputation: 7,795 Days Won: 21 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted October 27, 2017 8 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: There is no context where all simply means, "many." Those are not interchangeable terms. I agree most emphatically with Shiloh. There is nothing that boils my oil MORE, than someone who would potentially rob humanity of their offer of salvation, and put into question God's Amazing Grace. WHOSOEVER. And please do not get into the predestined spaghetti mix of contrary arguments of election-speak. God takes us as we are and offers to mold us into His Love. He is totally, TOTALLY sure of what He is doing. He is taking soiled humans, destined for death, and giving them a chance at LIFE if they accept Him. Do not detract from this. No one, and I mean no one is prohibited from Salvation while they live. The offer is free and for all to accept or reject. No one is prohibited by God. If they do not accept His Grace, then they will die in their unforgiven state. But God does not wish any to perish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert William Posted October 27, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 612 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 93 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 27, 2017 1 minute ago, shiloh357 said: No, it doesn't mean they are sinless. It simply means that Jesus paid the penalty for sin. That is what the Atonement did. The Atonement doesn't eradicate sin. Paul makes that clear in Galatians five when he speaks of the works of the flesh. We still have a sin nature and we can still be tempted and we still stumble on occasions in a sincere attempt to serve the Lord. There is NOTHING in the biblical doctrine of the Atonement that says that Christ's Atonement makes us sinless. Sinless when God looks through His Son who Atoned for them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 Just now, Robert William said: Sinless when God looks through His Son who Atoned for them! But you said that if Jesus atoned for everyone that everyone would be sinless. It is only when we receive God's offer of salvation that we appropriate the benefits of the Atonement. The benefit of God seeing us through the blood of Jesus is a benefit that comes only to those who receive the free gift of salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert William Posted October 27, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 612 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 93 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 27, 2017 1 minute ago, shiloh357 said: But you said that if Jesus atoned for everyone that everyone would be sinless. It is only when we receive God's offer of salvation that we appropriate the benefits of the Atonement. The benefit of God seeing us through the blood of Jesus is a benefit that comes only to those who receive the free gift of salvation. Sorry, salvation is NOT by works or an act of the flesh. Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 Just now, Robert William said: Sorry, salvation is NOT by works or an act of the flesh. Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. I never said it was by works or the flesh. Romans 9 is not about salvation or the atonement. Roman's 9 is Paul's defense of God's sovereign choice to cause a partial blindness to come upon Israel. Romans 9 is about service not salvation and it speaks to God's sovereign choice to use us as He chooses. It NOT about God choosing anyone for salvation. You need a more sophisticated theology of salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert William Posted October 27, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 612 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 93 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 27, 2017 4 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: But you said that if Jesus atoned for everyone that everyone would be sinless. It is only when we receive God's offer of salvation that we appropriate the benefits of the Atonement. The benefit of God seeing us through the blood of Jesus is a benefit that comes only to those who receive the free gift of salvation. If the natural man considers the gospel to be foolishness, then would he choose it, then what is free will for? 1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert William Posted October 27, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 612 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 93 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 27, 2017 Just now, shiloh357 said: I never said it was by works or the flesh. Romans 9 is not about salvation or the atonement. Roman's 9 is Paul's defense of God's sovereign choice to cause a partial blindness to come upon Israel. Romans 9 is about service not salvation and it speaks to God's sovereign choice to use us as He chooses. It NOT about God choosing anyone for salvation. You need a more sophisticated theology of salvation. Making a choice is an action a work of the flesh, salvation by works. Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 Just now, Robert William said: If the natural man considers the gospel to be foolishness, then would he choose it, then what is free will for? 1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. Paul is speaking in generalities. Not all unsaved people believe the Gospel is foolishness. Many believe it is true, but love their sin more. Generally speaking the world does consider the Gospel to be foolish and we can expect that a majority of them will. Jesus promised that the narrow path of eternal life will be the path less traveled. People have the freedom when they hear the Gospel to reject it. That is simply biblical fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert William Posted October 27, 2017 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 612 Content Per Day: 0.25 Reputation: 93 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/11/2017 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 27, 2017 1 minute ago, shiloh357 said: Paul is speaking in generalities. Not all unsaved people believe the Gospel is foolishness. Many believe it is true, but love their sin more. Generally speaking the world does consider the Gospel to be foolish and we can expect that a majority of them will. Jesus promised that the narrow path of eternal life will be the path less traveled. People have the freedom when they hear the Gospel to reject it. That is simply biblical fact. You are rejecting scripture, it teaches the opposite. Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 2 minutes ago, Robert William said: Making a choice is an action a work of the flesh, salvation by works. Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. Romans 9 isn't about salvation, but about how God uses us for His purposes. Making a choice is not a work of the flesh. The Bible is very clear about what constitutes a "work" from the vantage point of salvation. We are not saved by "works" in terms of personal merit or self-righteousness. By your logic, repentance would be a "work." Or, believing would be "work." Simply saying yes to Jesus is not a "work" according to how "work" is theologically defined in Scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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