Who Is This Other Jesus Paul Warn Us About!

[Estrella]

Removed due to redundancy

[Estrella]

8 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

If you can find some verses or scriptures in the Bible about what you saying, maybe I can understand where you getting your thoughts from. 

Jesus Is Lord of the Sabbath

Mark 2 

 

²³ One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and as his disciples walked along, they began to pick some heads of grain. ²⁴ The Pharisees said to him, “Look, why are they doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?”

²⁵ He answered, “Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry and in need?²⁶ In the days of Abiathar the high priest,he entered the house of God and ate the consecrated bread, which is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions.”

²⁷ Then he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. ²⁸ So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

[Bro.Tan]

22 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

How many different Sabbath Day threads do you need?  Did you buy a dozen on sale and they have to be used by a certain date?

I don't know where you get this bogus theory that Christians think Sunday worship is the Sabbath.  I've never thought or believed that.  I don't know anyone personally that does.  I don't know of anyone here on the board that believes this.  You keep using that red herring over and over again when it has already been proven, multiple times to be false.

I've asked you this a dozen times and you never answered the question, so I will ask it again, and keep asking it.  How, exactly, do you, personally keep the Sabbath?  Explain it to me.  If you are going to tell people you are keeping the Sabbath, you have to also be able to tell them how you are doing so.

You don't need to continue asking question to answers that are written the Bible, your answers are in the Bible! If you keep the first day of the week, (Sunday) which is not in the Bible to keep, how are you doing that? Where is any example in the Bible concerning the sabbath day on the first day of the week. In the scriptures it's written in Proverbs 24:7 Wisdom is too high for a fool: he openeth not his mouth in the gate.

 

[Bro.Tan]

5 minutes ago, Eastern Star said:

Jesus Is Lord of the Sabbath

Mark 2 

 

²³ One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and as his disciples walked along, they began to pick some heads of grain. ²⁴ The Pharisees said to him, “Look, why are they doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?”

²⁵ He answered, “Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry and in need?²⁶ In the days of Abiathar the high priest,he entered the house of God and ate the consecrated bread, which is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions.”

²⁷ Then he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. ²⁸ So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

Ok...heres another example in Luke 13: 14 And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day.

15 The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and lead him away to watering?

16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?

 

Another words its ok to do good works on the sabbath day.

 

[Bro.Tan]

On 11/28/2017 at 6:30 PM, shiloh357 said:

That is becauseno one has ever made that claim.   No one claims the Sabbath was changed.  We worship on Sunday because Jesus rose from the dead on the first day of week and because all of his post resurrection appearances recorded are on the first day of the week and the Holy Spirit came on the day of Pentecost on the first day of week.  

The Sabbath is still the Sabbath.  But the Church is not obligated do it, and never was.  

What Jesus didn't rise on Sunday and I can prove it, more then once in the Bible, are you then going to keep the sabbath day on the seventh day of the week as written?

[Bro.Tan]

Therefore, God's Sabbath is for everybody to observe, "Also, the sons of the stranger (non-Israelite), that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, everyone that keepeth the Sabbath from polluting it...even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer..." (Isaiah 56:6-7). So just as any and everyone will get punished for breaking the Sabbath, any and everyone will get blessed for observing it.

During the days of the apostles the Gentiles recognized that they had to observe the seventh day Sabbath. "And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath day" (Acts 13:42). These people did not try to come up with their own Sabbath, but instead honored the Lord's Sabbath which he had given to Israel. Later, Paul not only persuaded the Jews, but the Greeks also "every Sabbath" (Acts 18:4). Therefore, the apostles and the newly converted Gentiles all observed the seventh day Sabbath. As we have already pointed out it was not until the 4th Century A.D. that the Gentiles changed the Sabbath to Sunday. However, if the Sabbath had changed after the resurrection of Jesus, Paul and those who were first called Christians would not have continued to observe it. "And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them and three Sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures" (Acts 17:2). In all the traveling that Paul did he still found time to keep the Sabbath and other holy days.  

Some attempt to twist the scriptures (woe unto them) to support their theory that the Sabbath changed. Paul's preaching, breaking bread, and gathering collections on the first day does not change the Sabbath on the seventh day of the week (Saturday). Lets take a look in Acts 20: 6 And we sailed away from Philippi after the days of unleavened bread, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days.

Notice, Paul kept the Holy Highs Days, the feast of unleavened Bread, which is still good this day.

7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight. 8 And there were many lights in the upper chamber, where they were gathered together.

Notice, it was upon the first day of the week, which means Paul was preaching on the seventh day (Saturday) and the day went into the first day of the week. The seventh day begins Friday at evening, instead of, midnight Friday; thus, the seventh day is sundown Friday to sundown Saturday. So the beginning of Sunday starts Saturday sundown. However it is important that we understand that the Lord begins the day with the evening, "And God called the light day, and the darkness was called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." (Gen 1:5). Man begins the day at 12:01 am, so, there is about a six hour difference from sundown (beginning of the day) to midnight.

Now lets see if the Sabbath day change in I Corinthians 16: 2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

In fact, its looking like Paul saying there be no gathering when I come. This is not a good verse to use to change the Sabbath day on the seventh day of the week. 

[Estrella]

14 minutes ago, Bro.Tan said:

Ok...heres another example in Luke 13: 14 And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day.

15 The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and lead him away to watering?

16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?

 

Another words its ok to do good works on the sabbath day.

 

Indeed that's true. So my follow up question would then be : In applying the above verse to today's world and era, how do we define or classify "good works" during Sabbath? What are not considered as "good works" during Sabbath?  I am not talking about doing good or evil here. For example, if we have weddings to attend or conduct or if we have pre school concerts on a Saturday, where teachers have to "work", and parents have to prepare things or Christians generally need to get other stuff done on a Saturday since most things are close on Sunday and they work from Monday to Friday...office hours, how do we go about it? My questions would sound silly but i suppose i am trying to clarify for the application of the above in everyday life situation on Saturday. For some people, the definition of "work" and "good works" itself differs. Yes the Bible probably has the principles of Sabbath but how do we apply them in today's world? And remember Christians are all over the world and come from different nations, culture, walk of life, different sets of value in addition to Christian values and most of us are minorities or do not live in Christian nations. And are there "bad works?" Also how one rests differs as well. For a mother with a young child for example, i do not think she can "rest" from her everyday job of "working" at home if she is a stay at home mum. 

Also i believe the other person was asking about how you go about keeping the Sabbath and not what the Bible tells about the Sabbath. I believe, he was talking about the application of the Sabbath from your own experience. What do you do or dont do during Sabbath. 

[Estrella]

3 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

In other words, you continue to choose not to answer the question, because you cannot answer it.

The only part of the Sabbath you "keep" is the day.  You do not actually keep any of the rest of it, and in reality, reject every single facet of the Sabbath except for what day it is observed on.

You cannot, physically, perform any of the rituals and sacrifices that you must perform to keep the Sabbath because you do not have a Temple in Jerusalem, you do not have a Levitical Priesthood operating within that Temple, and you are not offering the required sacrifices.

You are not ceasing from all work, especially if you are driving your car to church and if you are running any utilities in your house on Saturday.

You are causing others to work on Saturday as well unless you are completely off the grid on that day. 

The only guideline you actually follow, in regards to the Sabbath, is to try and "keep" it on the right day.  You do not do anymore than that, and that hardly comes close to actually "keeping " the Sabbath.  That is why you will not answer pointed questions about how you keep the Sabbath.  You can keep starting new Sabbath threads and then abandon them because you don't wish to answer difficult questions, but I will keep on asking them.

I also see that you are still pushing the false concept that Christians who go to Church on Sunday think of Sunday as the Sabbath.  I've told you this before, but it obviously has not sunk in yet:

We do not believe that.  What you are doing is forwarding a false theory of what people believe in an attempt to make your flawed theory look better.  You bear false witness.  Every single time you do it.

 

2 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

In other words, the theory that you are floating is that it is OK to drive your car to Church on Saturday because you are doing a good work by going to Church.  That's pretty thin, but it might float except for the fact that you cause dozens of people to have to work on the Sabbath by just driving your car to Church.  You also cause hundreds of people to have to work on the Sabbath if you live in a house inside of any city limits and you have even one utility.

What you mentioned here is parallel with some of what i had asked and pointed out too...especially in the application part of it and the definition and classification of what "good works" entail.

[justadisciple]

Jesus worked on the Sabbath and said that those who work for God on the Sabbath are counted innocent.  

Just as Jesus deepened the other commandments (don't kill to don't be angry, don't commit adultery to do not lust after a woman you are not married to, etc), he deepened the Sabbath commandment by showing us that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath, because what God really wants is love and mercy and not religious sacrifices.  

You ask "what constitutes good works"?  That's like the Pharisee asking "who is my neighbour"?

You don't have to ask the question because you already know the answer (just get out there and go about doing good like Jesus did, loving others)... unless you are looking for some legalistic framework whereby it can be established what is the minimum amount of good that can be done or some basis by which you can judge others and say "you are not obeying the Sabbath because you..."

The whole concept of the Sabbath from start to finish was about ceasing from doing our own works and dedicating ourselves to God.  Jesus cause on us to live out a perpetual Sabbath, to the point that for many of us who serve Christ, we make no distinction between one day or another, because every day is dedicated to serving God.

[Bro.Tan]

23 hours ago, Cobalt1959 said:

In other words, the theory that you are floating is that it is OK to drive your car to Church on Saturday because you are doing a good work by going to Church.  That's pretty thin, but it might float except for the fact that you cause dozens of people to have to work on the Sabbath by just driving your car to Church.  You also cause hundreds of people to have to work on the Sabbath if you live in a house inside of any city limits and you have even one utility.

The bible stresses that we should be followers of Christ. It also forbids us to make up and follow our own traditions. Jesus made a practice of observing the Sabbath day. "And as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day..." (Luke 4:16). A true follower of Christ will honor the seventh day, just as Jesus did. Although Jesus honored the Sabbath, many people attempt to use his compassion to do away with it. If someone is in need on the Sabbath, we as servants of God are not to ignore them. Jesus said, "...it is lawful to do well on the Sabbath days" (Matthew 12:12). Common sense lets us know that if a special need arises on the Sabbath day we are allowed to handle it. Just as Jesus healed people and spoke of pulling an ox out of a well on the Sabbath. Doing what's necessary on the Sabbath does not do away with it. The Sabbath was made to benefit man and not be a hindrance, "...The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath:" (Mark 2:27).