Helping the People of Israel

[Guest yod]

We bulldoze houses in America also whenever a proposed highway, or dam, or new housing development is to be built. Why shouldn't they?

In America we also pay the person for their house and land when we remove it. Even you should be able to see the difference Yod.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If they owned the land it might be different.

Are you absolutely sure that they aren't renumerated in some way?

[Guest shiloh357]

Bottom line is, Israel is God's chosen people. You are either wih God or you are not.

I don't support the Palestinian terrorist actions, but much of what has happened in the middle east is exactly what happened to the Jews in WW2. I find it Ironic they scream about WWII and turn around and perform some of the same actions on another people. All the repression techniques, they learned from the Nazis.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is just dumb. The Jews are imitating the Nazis???? Let's see... in the last 4 years from the beginning of the intifada, apprx. 3000 Palestinians have died in the intifada against Israel. People want to pretend that the Palestinian deaths are Israel's fault.

Reason with me here...

For the sake of argument, let's say that the figure of 3,000 Palestinian death (which is according to the PA's reports) is true. Let's assume that everything Israel's detractors say is true. Let's assume the EVERY Palestinian that has died in the last four years, died at the end of an Israeli machine gun. OK?

For the sake of argument, we will ignore that they died in an Intifada THEY started. We will ignore that many Palestinians were killed by their own Palestinian people for being collaborators with Israel. We will forget that many of them died by blowing themselves up as suicide bombers. We will ignore that many died by their booby traps blowing up prematurely. We will ignore that many of them were shelling Jewish villages with rockets when they were confronted by the IDF. We will ignore all of that, and pretend that your assumption is correct, Cerran. We will pretend that all these Palestinians are just the victims of Israel's attempt to exterminate the Palestinians like the Nazis did to the Jews.

So Cerran, do the math. Assuming that Israel keeps up the current pace of "exterminating" Palestinians, at the rate of 3000 every four years, it would take Israel a whopping 8,000 years to achieve the same Jewish casualty numbers that the Nazis achieved in the Holocaust. If the Jews are doing what they learned from the Nazis, they were poor students. If Israel's goal was to eliminate the Palestinians, it is a dismal failure!!!!

In 1948, there were 650,000 Palestinians in the area. Now there is in excess of 5 million in the last 56 years. If Israel were trying to get rid of the Palestinians, the numbers would have decreased.

That was just a really stupid remark to make Cerran. People like you and JimR-OCDs need to get your facts straight. Neither of you know beans about what is going on with this conflict.

[Cerran]

I'm not discussing the Intafada, what I'm discussing pre-dates that. I'm talking about 1965 to 1990. The practice of demolishing homes pre-dates the intafada.

It wasn't a contest on how many people died, but rather their methods used which are similar, and I've yet to hear anyone deny that.

What Israel does would be akin to demolishing someone's home here in the US when one of their relatives murdered someone else. It just cannot be justified. I am not a moral relativist. Wrong is Wrong.

[nebula]

Cerran -

The Jews have been fighting for their survival for centuries.

Everywhere they've gone, they have had to endure bigotry and persecution.

What they suffered under the Nazis was an attempt at extermination.

What evidence do you have to present that the Israelis are attempting to exterminate the people now called Palestinians?

Are they being rounded up into concentration camps and stuffed into gas chambers?

Do you not understand that the Arabs again are attempting to exterminate the Jews out of Israel?

Do you not understand that the Israelites are in a fight for their existance as well as for their country?

Do you not understand that if the Palestinians are granted the Gaza Strip and Golan Heights for a country of their own that the fighting will not stop?

What would you do to defend your country if this was you?

[Guest shiloh357]

I'm not discussing the Intafada, what I'm discussing pre-dates that. I'm talking about 1965 to 1990. The practice of demolishing homes pre-dates the intafada.

First of all, the destruction of Palestinian houses is not Hitleristic. It has absolutely no connection to the Nazis. That is just an ignorant comparison, but the critics of Israel will stop at nothing to arbitrarily assign values and motives to Israel in order to paint Israel in a bad light.

Israel has used the practice of house demolition for quite a while at least going back into the sixties as a response to terrorism. But the use has always been sporadic. It was an off and on practice and not a daily event.

Most people want to discusss what Israel does without mentioning the attacks Israel suffered which precipitated the Israeli response.

It wasn't a contest on how many people died, but rather their methods used which are similar, and I've yet to hear anyone deny that.

That is just stupid... what similarities? Like Nebula said... Where are the concentration camps? Where are the ovens, and gas chambers? Where are shaven headed Palestinians with numbers tatooed on their arms? Where are trains full of Palestians being hearded off to labor camps?

Here is what I posted earlier to JimR-OCDS concerning what Israel has done for the Palestians in Gaza and the WB:

Yes Israel took Gaza in 1967. They took it from the Egyptians. Israel did not fight the Palestinians. What you may not know is that for the 19 years that Egypt occupied Gaza, Palestinian children were dying preventable diseases, there was no sewage treatment, the people were starving because all the money sent to help was diverted by the Arabs to fight Israel instead of helping the poor Palestinians.

Israel, AFTER 1967, went into Gaza and built hospitals for the Palestinians, allowed the Palestinians to receive welfare, gave free medical care to the Palestinians, cleaned up their drinking water, built new modern sewer systems and sewage treatment plants. The Israelis even built schools for handicapped and otherwise disabled children as well. One such school was a school for blind children, and Arafat converted it to a weapons depot. The Palestinians quality of life under Israel improved by nearly 200% after 1967.

Israel has done more for them than what has been listed above, but that gives you a good idea. This notion that Israel is treating them like the Nazis treated the Jews in Germany is ridiculous.

The more you post, the more ignorant your posts make you look.

What Israel does would be akin to demolishing someone's home here in the US when one of their relatives murdered someone else.

That is baloney. Israel is fighting a war against a people that wants them destroyed. House demolition is completely legitimate given the type of war Israel is fighting, and given the type of enemy Israel is confronting. Your comparison is specious.

[Guest yod]

QUOTE

What Israel does would be akin to demolishing someone's home here in the US when one of their relatives murdered someone else.

The IDF did that no more than a few times before the ISRAELI Supreme Court ruled that they can't do it...and it stopped.

That is old news....but ya gotta get the cheese somehow, right?

[sandy]

Hi ,

I know that I'm an unknown factor here, however I've read this whole thread and felt like I'd like to comment.

I lived in Jerusalem, Israel for three years with my husband and son. We were there when the intifada began and were there for alot of the intensity of it. This is not a problem that Israel brought on. Israel's response has been solely defensive. Every nation has not only the right , but the responsibility to protect her citizens and that is what Israel is attempting to do.

The secular media has played a large part in the negative peception of Israel during this time. I would sit in my apartment watching CNN or BBC reporting (and I use that word loosely) about an event that had happened that day. 9 out of 10 times I was astounded and disgusted by the outright lies they would tell and at the least the misrepresentaion and unbelieveable pro-Palestinian (and/or terrorist) bias.

One day I was in downtown Jerusalem grocery shopping. It was a cold and rainy day and when I came out of the store I decided to step into a little falafel cafe and have a bite to eat. Immediately I felt a nudging in my spirt to not do that , I thought that's strange I don't remember God not wanting me to eat falafel before... so I thought ok I'll go into this new coffee shop right near the falafel place and have a hot cup of coffee ... I had the same small voice of the Holy Spirit telling me not to. Well I finally got the message, I got in a taxi and started home. Before I had even arrived at my apartment a suicide bomber blew himself up right where I had been. It destroyed both the falafel place and the coffee shop. 3 people were killed (including a pregnant woman and her husband - they had just come from the doctors office where they learned they were having twins) and it wounded over 150 people. This is the kind of evil insanity that the Israelis live with daily. They have what I can only believe to be a God given inner strength and perserverance that enables them to live in such a pressure cooker of a situation and still have hope and still want peace. Speaking of peace .... why is it the Israelis are the only ones required to give tangible things for peace? The opposition gives (false) peace for land land and more land and the Israelis only get a piece of paper that can be torn up the next day (or just ignored by the terrorists). I think peace should be given for peace. Palestinians quit blowing us up and you get to live there in peace.

There's no need for me to go into the historical and Biblical truth about whose land this is , that's been handled very well by others before me in this thread.

I have friends in Israel that are Jewish, Christian Arab, and there are a few muslims that I thought were at least friendly accquiantances if not friends. I reference the muslims that way because after 9/11 I had a rude awakening about certain people that I was at least friendly with if not actually 'friends' with. The Israelis wept with the Americans for what we had suffered at the hands of the terrorists because they understand it so very well themselves. The muslims danced in the streets and rejoiced at our suffering - including giving each other chocolates and other sweets. I know this for a FACT because I experienced both sides personally.

As for Christian Arabs being pushed out of their homes by the Israelis, well that's absurd !!!

I have a friend who is a Christian Arab from Bethlehem and she married a friend of ours from Jerusalem (he is an Armenian Christian). I asked her if all the Christians were in fact leaving Bethlehem like we had heard. She said yes and no. Yes , because anyone who could afford to leave had already left and no, because some were not able to leave but they wanted to. I asked her why they were leaving - was it the Israelis forcing them out and she said absolutly NOT !! She said it was the muslims and in particular the terrorists that were doing this. She said that in Bethlehem if you are not a muslim you must live very carefully to protect your property and lives. She said if her family were to all leave their home at the same time (even to go to a wedding) that while they were gone their entire home would be destroyed when they came home. Not only would all their belongings be stolen even the toilets , but the very tiles would be stolen from the floor. She said her parents were so happy that she had gotten married and moved to Jerusalem so that she would be safer.

The muslims in the Bethlehem region went into Beit Jalla (a Christian Arab village) , drove Christians from their homes with the threat to leave or die, and also took over an ancient church in the village. They did this so that they could shoot at The Israelis from the church with the hope that the Israelis would retaliate and find themselves in a PR nightmare when the main stream media would then report that the imperiallistic Israelis were shooting at a defenseless Christian village and worse yet at a church ! I know this because at the time I was living in the neighborhood that the terrorists were shooting at - Gilo.

This is just a tiny portion of the massive amount of things I saw and experienced while living in Israel.

God will not be mocked - He said I will bless them that bless Israel and will curse them that curse Israel. I think I'll choose God's side, He hasn't lost yet !!

Shalom,

Sandy

[his-servant-too]

shiloh, you are a wonderful and powerful speaker with total incite of the whole situation. With your bible at your side I think you should hop the first transport over there and stop all this bloodshed. It's your duty to the children of god. Don't preach to us we're behind you all the way. If you can save one life then it will have been worth it.

----------------------------------------------------

I myself do nothing. The Holy Spirit accomplishes all through me.

William Blake

English engraver, illustrator, & poet (1757 - 1827)

[Snow4JC]

Hi ,

I know that I'm an unknown factor here, however I've read this whole thread and felt like I'd like to comment.

I lived in Jerusalem, Israel for three years with my husband and son. We were there when the intifada began and were there for alot of the intensity of it.  This is not a problem that Israel brought on. Israel's response has been solely defensive. Every nation has not only the right , but the responsibility to protect her citizens and that is what Israel is attempting to do.

The secular media has played a large part in the negative peception of Israel during this time. I would sit in my apartment watching CNN or BBC reporting (and I use that word loosely) about an event that had happened that day. 9 out of 10 times I was astounded and disgusted by the outright lies they would tell and at the least the misrepresentaion and unbelieveable pro-Palestinian (and/or terrorist) bias.

One day I was in downtown Jerusalem grocery shopping. It was a cold and rainy day and when I came out of the store I decided to step into a little falafel cafe and have a bite to eat. Immediately I felt a nudging in my spirt to not do that , I thought that's strange I don't remember God not wanting me to eat falafel before... so I thought ok I'll go into this new coffee shop right near the falafel place and have a hot cup of coffee ... I had the same small voice of the Holy Spirit telling me not to. Well I finally got the message, I got in a taxi and started home. Before I had even arrived at my apartment a suicide bomber blew himself up right where I had been. It destroyed both the falafel place and the coffee shop. 3 people were killed (including a pregnant woman and her husband - they had just come from the doctors office where they learned they were having twins) and it wounded over 150 people. This is the kind of evil insanity that the Israelis live with daily. They have what I can only believe to be a God given inner strength and perserverance that enables them to live in such a pressure cooker of a situation and still have hope and still want peace. Speaking of peace ....  why is it the Israelis are the only ones required to give tangible things for peace? The opposition gives (false) peace for land land and more land and the Israelis only get a piece of paper that can be torn up the next day (or just ignored by the terrorists). I think peace should be given for peace. Palestinians quit blowing us up and you get to live there in peace.

There's no need for me to go into the historical and Biblical truth about whose land this is , that's been handled very well by others before me in this thread.

I have friends in Israel that are Jewish, Christian Arab, and there are a  few muslims that I thought were at least friendly accquiantances if not friends. I reference the muslims that way because after 9/11 I had a rude awakening about certain people that I was at least friendly with if not actually 'friends' with. The Israelis wept with the Americans for what we had suffered at the hands of the terrorists because they understand it so very well themselves. The muslims danced in the streets and rejoiced at our suffering - including giving each other chocolates and other sweets. I know this for a FACT because I experienced both sides personally.

As for Christian Arabs being pushed out of their homes by the Israelis, well that's absurd !!!

I have a friend who is a Christian Arab from Bethlehem and she married a friend of ours from Jerusalem (he is an Armenian Christian). I asked her if all the Christians were in fact leaving Bethlehem like we had heard. She said yes and no. Yes , because anyone who could afford to leave had already left and no, because some were not able to leave but they wanted to. I asked her why they were leaving - was it the Israelis forcing them out and she said absolutly NOT !! She said it was the muslims and in particular the terrorists that were doing this. She said that in Bethlehem if you are not a muslim you must live very carefully to protect your property and lives. She said if her family were to all leave their home at the same time (even to go to a wedding) that while they were gone their entire home would be destroyed when they came home. Not only would all their belongings be stolen even the toilets , but the very tiles would be stolen from the floor. She said her parents were so happy that she had gotten married and moved to Jerusalem so that she would be safer.

The muslims in the Bethlehem region went into Beit Jalla (a Christian Arab village) , drove Christians from their homes with the threat to leave or die, and also took over an ancient church in the village. They did this so that they could shoot at The Israelis from the church with the hope that the Israelis would retaliate and find themselves in a PR nightmare when the main stream media would then report that the imperiallistic Israelis were shooting at a defenseless Christian village and worse yet at a church !  I know this because at the time I was living in the neighborhood that the terrorists were shooting at - Gilo.

This is just a tiny portion of the massive amount of things I saw and experienced while living in Israel.

God will not be mocked - He said I will bless them that bless Israel and will curse them that curse Israel. I think I'll choose God's side, He hasn't lost yet !!

Shalom,

Sandy

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you, Sandy for your comments. It was very interesting.

We The people must remember that the media isn't necessarly loyal to anyone.

I am sorry you had to live thru and see thru those incidents.

G-D is a Mighty G-D! Something all should Remember.

Snow4JC

[sandy]

You're very welcome and thank you for your response.

I do want to clarify one thing --

While there were difficult times living in Israel, my time there was not defined by the difficult things.

I LOVED every minute of the time we lived there !!! It was a dream come true and I am grateful that God blessed us with the opportunity to live and work in Israel.

I made many friends and I treasure them !! I see it as a gift that God allowed us to be in the Land and live out the scripture that says comfort ye comfort ye My people.