Recognizing Christmas

[MorningGlory]

34 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

Forget about Christmas for a second and look at what you just said.     And stop worrying about what others believe and do.    That sure weren't no early church motto.

Now tell cain, we are our brothers keeper.  People just don't like being correct that usually say things like this .   

We are to be about others welfare even above our own.    IF paul , peter , CHRIST himself had this above said motto you said the church would never have been the church.

WE supposed to correct , rebuke , look out for .   I got my righteousness ITS CHRIST ALONE , but if I HAVE HIS LOVE then its all about correction.

Yalls being set up to shut people like me who warn down.    But this aint new , its jus way worse these days.

IN all the years I have been warning and being grave do you know how often I have been basically told mind my own business.  You know how much it has worked.

NOT A BIT ,   I LOVE so I will keep on correcting.   PS satan is a lie ,   thou shalt not lie , all liars shall have their part in the lake of fire.  YET this tradition

lies to kids , lies , lies and christains just see no harm in it.  HOW is teaching a child a lie is good , GOOD.   no wonder so many think lying aint no big deal.

Santa clause is a lie , their is no big omniscient presence God like thing that knows ALL, that sees all.......WHO YA THINK that is.  YET SANTA takes HIS JOB .

Lets get real.    A LIE is A LIE.   no sirs , no mams........we to be HOLY not of this world.  but try telling this to christains these days, and ye get labled religious.

Well, REJOICE when persecuted even if its just words .   

I'm not interested in shutting down you or anyone else.  But don't preach to others unless you are righteous enough to worry about what other people are doing while ignoring your own life.  We are all Christians here, in case you have forgotten.  God doesn't care about the silly holidays or Santa Claus or any of that.  He cares that we believe and follow Him.  Preachy people are never listened to....think about that when the next person is rude to you, although they shouldn't be.

[MyLordsServant]

17 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

Forget about Christmas for a second and look at what you just said.     And stop worrying about what others believe and do.    That sure weren't no early church motto.

Now tell cain, we are our brothers keeper.  People just don't like being correct that usually say things like this .   

We are to be about others welfare even above our own.    IF paul , peter , CHRIST himself had this above said motto you said the church would never have been the church.

WE supposed to correct , rebuke , look out for .   I got my righteousness ITS CHRIST ALONE , but if I HAVE HIS LOVE then its all about correction.

Yalls being set up to shut people like me who warn down.    But this aint new , its jus way worse these days.

IN all the years I have been warning and being grave do you know how often I have been basically told mind my own business.  You know how much it has worked.

NOT A BIT ,   I LOVE so I will keep on correcting.   PS satan is a lie ,   thou shalt not lie , all liars shall have their part in the lake of fire.  YET this tradition

lies to kids , lies , lies and christains just see no harm in it.  HOW is teaching a child a lie is good , GOOD.   no wonder so many think lying aint no big deal.

Santa clause is a lie , their is no big omniscient presence God like thing that knows ALL, that sees all.......WHO YA THINK that is.  YET SANTA takes HIS JOB .

Lets get real.    A LIE is A LIE.   no sirs , no mams........we to be HOLY not of this world.  but try telling this to christains these days, and ye get labled religious.

Well, REJOICE when persecuted even if its just words .   

That's exactly right. 

We are told not to learn from the Heathens. Christmas is pagan, that's 100% fact.

You CANNOT mix Holy with pagan! Again I say, Christians throw out the pagan god of Christmas, and throw in Jesus.

If you participate in the practices, then you are learning from the heathen. We are called to be separate, not of the world.

But satans lie has been drilled so deep into the minds of Christians, it will take prayer, fasting and opening of their eyes and heart to see the truth. To see past what their emotions will let them see. 

The poster asked about everyone's opinions on the subject. But the second fellow Christians oppose their personal view, it's a "do whatever you think is right, and don't bother me" situation. But they glorify the agreeing opinions, as if agreeing opinions outweigh the truth. The Bible clearly states the truth, and you are not denying our words, but Gods words!

The truth is so simple, yet they see and do not perceive. The truth is there, but they choose to not believe it. 

Those who claim "it's just a tree", are just as likely to bring into their home an occult object or idol, and say "it's just wood" or "it's just metal". Or not even realize the significance behind what they keep.

There has to be an understanding of association and necessity. To realize that, by having these images and objects in your house, you are associating with the tradition and creating an open door for evil spirits. Also the necessity, why is it so hard to get rid of such vain objects? To begin, Santa, reindeer, elves, etc., have nothing to do with Jesus' birth, so why have them?

 

Christians are more focused on keeping Santa and his elves, then getting rid of him to make more room for JESUS!

 

This is perhaps the worst influence on children. Christians will teach "Santa Claus is real, and God is real". Then when the kids find out Santa isn't real, how can they trust that God is real? This implants an emotional attachment to the tradition, and they are likely to indulge in it, deeper than you and your ancestors. Which is exactly what has happened over the centuries. It's at the point, where Jesus is being thrown aside and Christians pay more attention to the tradition, rather then the reason they claim celebration. 

[MorningGlory]

8 minutes ago, MyLordsServant said:

That's exactly right. 

We are told not to learn from the Heathens. Christmas is pagan, that's 100% fact.

You CANNOT mix Holy with pagan! Again I say, Christians throw out the pagan god of Christmas, and throw in Jesus.

If you participate in the practices, then you are learning from the heathen. We are called to be separate, not of the world.

But satans lie has been drilled so deep into the minds of Christians, it will take prayer, fasting and opening of their eyes and heart to see the truth. To see past what their emotions will let them see. 

The poster asked about everyone's opinions on the subject. But the second fellow Christians oppose their personal view, it's a "do whatever you think is right, and don't bother me" situation. But they glorify the agreeing opinions, as if agreeing opinions outweigh the truth. The Bible clearly states the truth, and you are not denying our words, but Gods words!

The truth is so simple, yet they see and do not perceive. The truth is there, but they choose to not believe it. 

Those who claim "it's just a tree", are just as likely to bring into their home an occult object or idol, and say "it's just wood" or "it's just metal". Or not even realize the significance behind what they keep.

There has to be an understanding of association and necessity. To realize that, by having these images and objects in your house, you are associating with the tradition and creating an open door for evil spirits. Also the necessity, why is it so hard to get rid of such vain objects? To begin, Santa, reindeer, elves, etc., have nothing to do with Jesus' birth, so why have them?

 

Christians are more focused on keeping Santa and his elves, then getting rid of him to make more room for JESUS!

 

This is perhaps the worst influence on children. Christians will teach "Santa Claus is real, and God is real". Then when the kids find out Santa isn't real, how can they trust that God is real? This implants an emotional attachment to the tradition, and they are likely to indulge in it, deeper than you and your ancestors. Which is exactly what has happened over the centuries. It's at the point, where Jesus is being thrown aside and Christians pay more attention to the tradition, rather then the reason they claim celebration. 

The above is only your opinion unless you back it with Scripture.  Try to understand that not everyone worries about trinkets and trees; that's not what the Word is about.  Many believe that if you just follow enough rules you'll get to Heaven; doesn't work that way.

[MyLordsServant]

5 minutes ago, MorningGlory said:

I'm not interested in shutting down you or anyone else.  But don't preach to others unless you are righteous enough to worry about what other people are doing while ignoring your own life.  We are all Christians here, in case you have forgotten.  God doesn't care about the silly holidays or Santa Claus or any of that.  He cares that we believe and follow Him.  Preachy people are never listened to....think about that when the next person is rude to you, although they shouldn't be.

"He cares that we believe and FOLLOW HIM".

Jesus would not associate with the Christmas(pagan) tradition, so how can you possibly follow him, and claim he doesn't care about these holidays?

Absurd! God does NOT want his children partaking in these deceitful holidays. Yes he does care, that's why he warns us to not take part with this world!

There is no "preachy" here. We're pointing the light at the scriptures, and you're turning your head. The fact you don't like the truth, doesn't get rid of it. We're not here to take away your fun, but to warn you as fellow brothers and sisters in Christ.

We are giving the truth clearly and gently. You are taking it to heart with dismay. If we didn't show you the truth, we would be 'putting the light under a bushel'.

"Learn not the way of the heathen" Jeremiah 10:2

"See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ." Colossians 2:8

"Why do you break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?" Matthew 15:3

"And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you" 2 Corinthians 6

"For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not. 5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good." Jeremiah 10:1-5

If these verses aren't clear enough to you, and you can't accept that Christmas is pagan. Then all I can offer is to pray for you, and hope you pray yourself for the truth. If you don't like peoples educated "opinions", then do your own research and don't wait for answers to plop into your hands. Especially with a hostile attitude that doesn't allow for consideration.

If you need a direct verse like, "Do not celebrate Christmas", then I'm afraid you've reached the point of deliberate ignorance. The scriptures don't write, "Do not inject heroin". But with common sense and deduction, we can figure out why we shouldn't inject heroin.

 

[ForHisGlory37]

3 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

The trouble is......many are worshiping and in bondage but don't know it.  If someone can't live without a Christmas tree then they are in bondage and worshiping it, in effect.  Just think what we do with a Christmas tree......we "offer" it gifts when we place the gifts under the tree, we then kneel down and retrieve those gifts to be "consumed" by someone.  Think about the sacrifices...how the worshipers participated in the sacrifice by eating of it, and how we eat the Lord's Supper, participating in His sacrifice.  I stopped having a Christmas tree when I saw that passage in Jeremiah, and it is hard to put into words, but i find Christmas to be a "freer and cleaner" time because of that.  Being rid of that bondage and spiritual dirt.  Also celebrating it more simply, more temperately I think would be the right word.  We can use the things of this world, but we are not to abuse or be enamored with them....don't go overboard or be excessive, and don't set our hearts on them. 

Hi Heleadethme,  I never thought of the Christmas tree in that way before!  Thank you for that enlightenment.  Kneeling down to it, offering it gifts when we put gifts under the tree...... hmmm.  I don't think I ever worshipped the tree in a conscious manner but just looked at it as a decoration.  I will have to chew on this a bit more.....

[Steve_K]

12 hours ago, Justmemyselfandi said:

There is no cynics here. Being cynical is believing that Christmas was done for self-centered reasons and that is not the case.  I don't believe that anyone celebrates Christmas for their own selves, but the fact is that it has nothing to do with the Birth, the death or the life of our savior. There is no getting around this and I for one would think it more appropriate to have an unblemished day, untarnished by false religion, in which to celebrate the only perfect person to ever walk the Earth and one who sacrificed everything, including his life for us, so that we could have everlasting life. What Christmas is is a hand me down day, like a pair of pants given to a younger sibling by and older.

What is happening in this thread is those who back the traditions of man are going up against people who have come to the conclusion  that only with the full and unmitigated truth being known about things can we honestly and forthrightly deal with the subject at hand

  The 25th of December was a day of celebration It was a public holiday celebrated around December 25th in the family home. A time for feasting, goodwill, generosity to the poor, the exchange of gifts and the decoration of trees. But it wasn't Christmas. This was Saturnalia, the pagan Roman winter solstice festival. The first recorded date of Christmas being celebrated on December 25th was in 336, during the time of the Roman Emperor Constantine (he was the first Christian Roman Emperor). A few years later, Pope Julius I officially declared that the birth of Jesus would be celebrated on the 25th December.

 (WIKI)" "Christmas" is a shortened form of "Christ's mass". It is derived from the Middle English Cristemasse, which is from Old English Crīstesmæsse, a phrase first recorded in 1038 followed by the word Cristes-messe in 1131."

Which contradicts your dating info. CHRISTMAS was not "borrowed" or a "hand me down". How can you claim  the celebration of Jesus' birth has anything to do with paganism? 

And; here's something I found on the origin of the CHRISTMAS tree. http://www.christianitytoday.com/history/2008/december/why-do-we-have-christmas-trees.html Again, nothing to do with "hand me downs"

 As Paul said in 2nd Corinthians 6:14, "Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?" In context, he's talking about idolatry. But, the same can be applied to anything pagan being practiced by Christians. 

My point is: As a Christian who has done his research, I reject your entire argument concerning Christmas. There's nothing "Pagan" about it.

 

 

[Steve_K]

11 hours ago, MorningGlory said:

No, MG did NOT say that.  Here is what I said: " Jesus never told us to not celebrate anything."

I stand corrected. Sorry about the misquote my friend

[Justmemyselfandi]

3 hours ago, Steve_K said:

 (WIKI)" "Christmas" is a shortened form of "Christ's mass". It is derived from the Middle English Cristemasse, which is from Old English Crīstesmæsse, a phrase first recorded in 1038 followed by the word Cristes-messe in 1131."

Which contradicts your dating info. CHRISTMAS was not "borrowed" or a "hand me down". How can you claim  the celebration of Jesus' birth has anything to do with paganism? 

And; here's something I found on the origin of the CHRISTMAS tree. http://www.christianitytoday.com/history/2008/december/why-do-we-have-christmas-trees.html Again, nothing to do with "hand me downs"

 As Paul said in 2nd Corinthians 6:14, "Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?" In context, he's talking about idolatry. But, the same can be applied to anything pagan being practiced by Christians. 

My point is: As a Christian who has done his research, I reject your entire argument concerning Christmas. There's nothing "Pagan" about it.

 

 

 

 

If by Wiki you mean you pulled that off of Wikipedia, that is far from doing any form of research. Anyone can go to Wikipedia and edit as they wish, whatever they wish.

 If you've done  any more research than that please submit it  and we will examine that together.  I am not here to push any agenda, but to supply the facts as I've found them and those I have submitted in this thread.

The first recorded date of Christmas being celebrated on December 25th was in 336, during the time of the Roman Emperor Constantine (he was the first Christian Roman Emperor). A few years later, Pope Julius I officially declared that the birth of Jesus would be celebrated on the 25th December.

Please be diligent in your search for factual history The idea of hand me downs was that Catholics took a already established pagan festival and renamed it  so they could imprint the idea of Christ into the public conscience. I have no clue why they didn't do it the old fashioned way of preaching the Gospel and letting the Holy Spirit do, but I guess they got impatient. This fact is not in question

http://www.history.com/topics/christmas/history-of-christmas

The origin of the Christmas tree

From your link there it

Quote

But by the early Middle Ages, the legend had grown that when Christ was born in the dead of winter, every tree throughout the world miraculously shook off its ice and snow and produced new shoots of green. At the same time, Christian missionaries preaching to Germanic and Slavic peoples were taking a more lenient approach to cultural practices

Legend has it. We should not work from legend and folklore for the information no matter where we find it.  History is history and it needs to be researched through as many channels as can be found.

 

The fact that the reason for Joseph and Mary to go to Bethlehem and the fact that the shepherds were tending their flocks in the fields  suggests that Christ was not born in the middle of the winter, because

(1) people would not have been able to move around so freely in the Winter time to make the journeys they would need to complete the census. All People young and old had to make this journey.

(2) The bible plainly states that the shepherds were in their fields  which was not done in those times. You need to feed these flocks as do ranchers today. They had to bring feed to them and back then they didn't have the vehicles we have today. They kept their flocks close to their dwellings and fed them from storage buildings set up to protect the feed.

The last part of that was not from your link, but I mistakenly posted my response within the quotes I placed there.  From where I bolded Legend has it to the bottom is my response alone.

 

Edited December 6, 2017 by Justmemyselfandi

[4LdKHVCzRDj2]

11 hours ago, MorningGlory said:

Why on earth did you copy and paste my post?  You weren't responding to me.

Quite probably he did not do it with evil intent.

It is known "bug" in the forums, I have said this in the past. It happens when someone quotes your post from other member's post who have quoted you.

[Jaydog1976]

This discussion happens every single year and quite frankly it gets old pretty quick. My opinion is that observing or not observing Christmas is not required for salvation and it does not tear down the essential doctrines like the deity of Christ and others. Until it does I will observe Christmas. Yes I focus on Christ every day but one day a year to really focus on it is not a bad thing. 

Observe it or don't observe it. That choice is really up to each individual. There are valid arguments for both sides and this discussion really doesn't change anything nor does it really change anyone's opinion. But I guess you need a post like this so that those who oppose observing Christmas can have a sounding board to give their opinions.