The governers of Judah

[Sister]

 

 Isaiah 65:9   And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.

[Sister]

34 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

It is one thing to say that Jesus is from the tribe of Judah.   But you're argument is that Jesus IS Judah and that Christians are "Judah" and the Bible simply doesn't say that. 

shiloh357

It's always according to the context of the scripture.

There's the old Judah, the ruling authority, then and now.  There is also the Judah that follows Christ, and within that contains Christians who are not sincere which God is also very angry at.  He will sift them out.  God is not only speaking of Jews when he passionately speaks against Judah, but the gentiles who claim to follow Christ, who have taken over that ruling authority amongst their own.  It's all according to context.  Then there's the real Judah at the end, who belong to Christ who will be the ruling authority.  There are many tents of Judah and it's all according to the context of the verses.

I picked this up a long time ago, and Serving also did a really good post about it a couple of years ago, ( I can't find right now), as he picked it up also that in Zech 12 I think it was, that God made a distinction between the house of David and Jerusalem, which used to be called Judah but is not in this prophecy, for God makes it clear there is a separation,...a different Judah from the old one.

Zechariah 12 leads up to the final day when Christ destroys Jerusalem's enemies.  It is clear that the house of David is relieved but ashamed because the one they rejected has come to save.  If they are "Judah" on this day, then they wouldn't be on the other side with Christ.  The "governors of Judah" are with Christ delivering Jerusalem, and given the same powers as angels.  The inhabitants of David will be confident, because no man can touch them now for Christ is fighting for them and will free them from bondage.

[Jayne]

1 hour ago, Sister said:

For anyone that is interested, Christ is from the lineage of Judah.

David was the King of Judah.  Follow his line in Matthew 1, and this is the bloodline of Judah.  This bloodline goes all the way down to Joseph who married Mary.  Joseph was not Jesus' biological father as we all know, but this is the generation of Jesus Christ.  Mary was also of Judah, but her bloodline not mentioned.  Mary's fathers name was Joachim (not sure of the spelling), and her mother's name was Anna.  I believe Joseph and Mary are related.  Both from Judah.

If we want to go even further, Judah's bloodline started from Abraham, before the twelve tribes were formed.

You can look up the rest of the chapter.  It ends with Joseph, strange, but not strange because they all Mary's relatives also.

Just a side note on the genealogy:

Yes, Jesus is from the tribe of Judah.  It's foretold many times in the Old Testament beginning with Judah himself as his father, Jacob, prophesied to him on his death bed.

But Jesus is not the tribe of Judah.

There are two genealogies of Christ in the gospels. One in Matthew, one in Luke.

MATTHEW'S LINEAGE

• Matthew is writing to Jews.  Jews required some "credentials" for a man to be the Messiah.  First and foremost, he had to be a Jew.  That's why Matthew starts with Abraham and goes to Jesus.  He connects the legal dots there.  Matthew's gospel tells the story of Joseph, Herod, and the Wise Men. Not Mary's story.  This lineage is Joseph's literal bloodline.  Jews were legalistic about bloodlines and Mary is covered under Joseph legally. But this is not her literal bloodline.  Hers varies.  Else, they would be brother and sister.

LUKE'S LINEAGE

• Luke 3 gives a different lineage.  From Jesus, going backward, all the way to God. Luke was a Gentile writing to Gentiles. Gentiles had no knowledge of Jewish regulations concerning a Messiah and probably would not have neede to have Jesus "proven" to be a Jewish man.  What they needed to know that that Jesus was God and the Savior.  Luke connects those dots by tracing Jesus mentioning, but bypassing Abraham, all the way back to God.  Luke teaches in GREAT detail, Mary's story along with the shepherds and the Temple dedication.  This lineage is Mary's literal lineage.

 

• Both Mary and Joseph has he same ancestors down to King David.  That's where the two lines split.  Matthew says that Joseph comes of David's son, Solomon, and Luke says that Mary came from David's son Nathan.  From David on down to Jesus, the two lines are different making them very, very,  very distant cousins.  Something like 39th or so.  Distant enough to be considered "not related".  No incest.  

 

• Both lineages mention Joseph as father, but not the biological father.  Matthew says, "...and Matthan the father of Jacob, and Jacob the father of Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom Jesus was born, who is called Christ."   and Luke says, "....Jesus, when he began his ministry, was about thirty years of age, being the son (as was supposed) of Joseph, the son of Heli,  the son of Matthat, the son of Levi"   Mary's father was Heli, Joseph's father-in-law.  In-laws were considered practically like parents.  And a father's name had to be listed in these chronicles for them to carry legal weight.  Again, Mary, being Joseph's wife would be under his legal shelter.

Edited January 6, 2018 by Jayne

[Guest shiloh357]

15 minutes ago, Sister said:

shiloh357

It's always according to the context of the scripture.

Which you completely ignore.   And there is NO context in Scripture that refers to Christians as "Judah."  Again, you're just making that up.

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There's the old Judah, the ruling authority, then and now.  There is also the Judah that follows Christ, and within that contains Christians who are not sincere which God is also very angry at.  He will sift them out.  God is not only speaking of Jews when he passionately speaks against Judah, but the gentiles who claim to follow Christ, who have taken over that ruling authority amongst their own.  It's all according to context.  Then there's the real Judah at the end, who belong to Christ who will be the ruling authority.  There are many tents of Judah and it's all according to the context of the verses.

Judah is not spiritualized in the Bible.   No place are Christians called Judah.   You are false teacher.   Judah is not Christianity and Christianity is not Judah.   You are not telling the truth, but are quite deceived.

 

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I picked this up a long time ago, and Serving also did a really good post about it a couple of years ago, ( I can't find right now), as he picked it up also that in Zech 12 I think it was, that God made a distinction between the house of David and Jerusalem, which used to be called Judah but is not in this prophecy, for God makes it clear there is a separation,...a different Judah from the old one.

You picked it up from a lying spirit, as this stuff is not of God.

Quote

Zechariah 12 leads up to the final day when Christ destroys Jerusalem's enemies.  It is clear that the house of David is relieved but ashamed because the one they rejected has come to save.  If they are "Judah" on this day, then they wouldn't be on the other side with Christ.  The "governors of Judah" are with Christ delivering Jerusalem, and given the same powers as angels.  The inhabitants of David will be confident, because no man can touch them now for Christ is fighting for them and will free them from bondage.

The inhabitants of David????  Seriuosly????   The governors of Judah are the current political leaders of Israel at this time.   This is a prophecy of modern Israel defeating their enemies right before Israel is spiritually restored.

The stuff you are teaching is utter garbage.   You have no clue what you are talking about.

[Sister]

God always uses symbolism as examples on what happened in the past.

For example, God calls Jerusalem Sodom and Egypt.  Jerusalem is not Sodom, nor Egypt, but God is speaking about that same spirit they have which is why he calls them that.  Why he calls them Egypt, is because Egypt was the land of oppression.  Israel were freed once, but returned spiritually to be in bondage, therefore he calls them Egypt because of that spirit of oppression.  He also calls the world Egypt in many verses, meaning the land that oppresses, and is oppressed because of own doings.

When God mentions Tyre, he is speaking about that land of commerce.  Not the actual place.  Also Chittim, means trading also.  When he mentions Assyrians he is speaking of the land of military might.  When he mentions Esau, or Edom, it's that land spiritually where people sold their inheritance.  When God mentions Babylon, it's that city of confusion,...the world.  That's only a few examples how God lays down clues for us to follow up on so we know specifically what he is speaking about.  So when he says Judah in Zech 12, it's Christ's kingdom, and the governors he has chosen from his kingdom. Christ is not only from the seed of Judah, but is the lawgiver.  Judah means ruling authority. Royalty. 

 

[Guest shiloh357]

Just now, Sister said:

God always uses symbolism as examples on what happened in the past.

But you do not get to assign symbolism arbitrarily whenever you want.

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  So when he says Judah in Zech 12, it's Christ's kingdom, and the governors he has chosen from his kingdom. Christ is not only from the seed of Judah, but is the lawgiver.  Judah means ruling authority. Royalty. 

Wrong.  There is no symbolism being applied there. There is no place in the Bible that "Judah" is symbolic of Christ's kingdom.   You are assigning symbolism that does not exist in the Bible.

That is false teaching.  

[Sister]

9 minutes ago, Jayne said:

Just a side note on the genealogy:

Yes, Jesus is from the tribe of Judah.  It's foretold many times in the Old Testament beginning with Judah himself as his father, Jacob, prophesied to him on his death bed.

But Jesus is not the tribe of Judah.

There are two genealogies of Christ in the gospels. One in Matthew, one in Luke.

MATTHEW'S LINEAGE

• Matthew is writing to Jews.  Jews required some "credentials" for a man to be the Messiah.  First and foremost, he had to be a Jew.  That's why Matthew starts with Abraham and goes to Jesus.  He connects the legal dots there.  Matthew's gospel tells the story of Joseph, Herod, and the Wise Men. Not Mary's story.  This lineage is Joseph's literal bloodline.  Jews were legalistic about bloodlines and Mary is covered under Joseph legally. But this is not her literal bloodline.  Hers varies.  Else, they would be brother and sister.

LUKE'S LINEAGE

• Luke 3 gives a different lineage.  From Jesus, going backward, all the way to God. Luke was a Gentile writing to Gentiles. Gentiles had no knowledge of Jewish regulations concerning a Messiah and probably would not have neede to have Jesus "proven" to be a Jewish man.  What they needed to know that that Jesus was God and the Savior.  Luke connects those dots by tracing Jesus mentioning, but bypassing Abraham, all the way back to God.  Luke teaches in GREAT detail, Mary's story along with the shepherds and the Temple dedication.  This lineage is Mary's literal lineage.

 

• Both Mary and Joseph has he same ancestors down to King David.  That's where the two lines split.  Matthew says that Joseph comes of David's son, Solomon, and Luke says that Mary came from David's son Nathan.  From David on down to Jesus, the two lines are different making them very, very,  very distant cousins.  Something like 39th or so.  Distant enough to be considered "not related".  No incest.  

 

• Both lineages mention Joseph as father, but not the biological father.  Matthew says, "...and Matthan the father of Jacob, and Jacob the father of Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom Jesus was born, who is called Christ."   and Luke says, "....Jesus, when he began his ministry, was about thirty years of age, being the son (as was supposed) of Joseph, the son of Heli,  the son of Matthat, the son of Levi"   Mary's father was Heli, Joseph's father-in-law.  In-laws were considered practically like parents.  And a father's name had to be listed in these chronicles for them to carry legal weight.  Again, Mary, being Joseph's wife would be under his legal shelter.

Thank you Jayne I will look those up.  Very interesting. 

 

I just have a quick question.  You say that Jesus is from the line of Judah, but is not the tribe of Judah?  What do you mean?

From what I understand is that the priesthood was always Levi, but when Jesus came, it switched to Judah. (Hebrews ch 7)

 

[Guest shiloh357]

5 minutes ago, Sister said:

 

 

I just have a quick question.  You say that Jesus is from the line of Judah, but is not the tribe of Judah?  What do you mean?

From what I understand is that the priesthood was always Levi, but when Jesus came, it switched to Judah. (Hebrews ch 7)

 

No, in Hebrews 7, it switched from the Aaronic priesthood, to that of the order of Melchizedek.   Jesus is not a priesthood of the tribe of Judah.  He is a priest after the order of Melchizedek.

[Sister]

11 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

But you do not get to assign symbolism arbitrarily whenever you want.

Wrong.  There is no symbolism being applied there. There is no place in the Bible that "Judah" is symbolic of Christ's kingdom.   You are assigning symbolism that does not exist in the Bible.

That is false teaching.  

shiloh357

I am sharing what I have discovered over the years.  No one should just believe me, but should check it out for themselves if they are interested to see if they can find a rhythm to God's speech.

 

[Sister]

Just now, shiloh357 said:

No, in Hebrews 7, it switched from the Aaronic priesthood, to that of the order of Melchizedek.   Jesus is not a priesthood of the tribe of Judah.  He is a priest after the order of Melchizedek.

shiloh357

And who do you think Melchizedek is?