Established proof for the Shroud of Turin

[Quasar93]

You might be interested in the notes Joel [Not the prophet! ] took from the documentary The Case for Christ's Resurrection. Whether the scientists involved were biased or not is unknown, but you can at least google for rebuttals to each of these and judge for yourself.

The case against the authenticity of the shroud:

1. The Carbon 14 dating test placed the sample taken to be woven between 1260 and 1390 - consistent with the earliest known record of the shroud in 1353.

2. The d'Arcis memorandum dated to be from 1389 claims that the shroud was painted by an artist.

The case for the authenticity of the shroud:

1. The uniqueness of Christ's wounds
A. Puncture wounds on the scalp
B. Wound in anatomical right side - the same width as a 1st century Roman lance
C. Wounds on hands and feet consistent with nails
D. Abrasion marks on shoulders consistent with having carried heavy object
E. Over 100 scourge marks on torso and legs consistent with Roman whip

2. Coins Contemporary with Crucifixion
A. One minted by Pontius Pilate 29-33 AD contains rare misspelling/ imprint on anatomical right eye of shroud
B. Anatomical left eye - imprint of Julia "lepton" minted only in 29 AD in honor of Caesar's mother.

3. Rare limestone on bloody foot area called "travertine aragonite" found in small radius around Jerusalem.

4. Imprints of numerous flowers indigenous to Palestine and bloom March and April/ ie "pistacia lentiscus, chrysanthemum coronarium"
A. Appear plucked longer than 24 hours but less than 72 hours
B. Pollen grains imaged on shroud including "gundelia tunaforte" or crown of thorns plant
C. None of the pollens were coated in tempora - matching those imaged

5. Image suggests rigormortis, but not putrifaction - consistent with body being dead over 24 hours but not 72 hours.

6. Blood areas are human blood
A. Contain hemoglobin
B. Positive test for serum "albumen"
C. No image of blood - indicates blood was on shroud before image

7. No evidence of painting or of pigment
A. No directionality, capillarity, brush strokes, or pigment
B. No shadows or outlines

8. Blood flow consistent with gravity
A. Law of gravity discovered 1693
B. Law of blood circulation discovered 1666

9. Ethnologists and anthropologists identified victim as man of semitic origin in early 30s - image includes "payos" or sidelocks visible on sides of face

10. Exceptional situation
A. Unusual for crucified victims to be buried in fine linen
B. Normally they are thrown in mass graves

11. No image of thumbs
- A forger or artist would have had to know that nails through the wrist damaged the median nerves causing thumbs to involuntarily turn toward the palms - thus no image on cloth.

12. Nails through wrist contrary to trend in medieval art

13. Talent of artist would have to exceed that of the known great artists

14. 3D distance information - No other known photographs have 3D qualities encoded.

15. Over 150,000 hours of STURP research concluded the image is of a real man and not a painting or product of an artist.

16. Carbon 14 dating process disputed - Work of Ray Rogers claims the tested sample was taken from a patched/rewoven area of shroud.

Until He comes,

Joel


Quasar93

[Who me]

There is a simple test for this.

 

       What difference does it make to the nonchristians you know?

[HAZARD]

 Regarding the Shroud of Turin. If we go the Bible and accept the Scriptures, it must be false and it has nothing to do with Christ.

Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?" (1 Cor. 11:14).

Long hair is a glory and a covering for women not men.

"But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering." (1 Cor. 11:15).

These Scripture being recorded in the Bible, I doubt Jesus would have had long hair as many icons show? That fake shroud of Turin also shows long hair on the face of the one depicted on it, another proof it is a fake.

And Scripture teaches Jesus had a beard.

"I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting." (Isa. 50:6).

The shroud of Turin is like a bed sheet. Its one piece from head to toe. Jesus was wrapped in linen strips as the Scriptures teach, and His head was wrapped in a seperate napkin so that negates the shroud for a start. You probably know this anyway.

"Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie, And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself." (John 20:6-7).

[Guest]

• New discoveries prove man on Shroud of Turin was ‘really crucified’ by Diane Montagna - LifeSite News - January 11, 2019 - Here is a brief excerpt: "Italian researchers have made a new discovery about the Shroud of Turin which they say strengthens the hypothesis that “the man of the Shroud was really crucified.” In a new soon-to-be-released study, researchers have also identified the exact point where the lance pierced his side, and concluded that the bloodstains on what many believe to be the burial cloth of Jesus are “absolutely realistic...” [Editor's Note: There were many other media reports on this research, but most were in Italian, so we have only included the English version here. Note also that the research this article is based on has, at the time of this writing, yet to be published in a scientific journal].

Source: Shroud

Edited January 29, 2019 by Saved.One.by.Grace

[Who me]

And look at the people rushing to become Christian;)

 

It is irrelevant.

[Guest]

On 2/8/2019 at 6:26 PM, Who me said:

And look at the people rushing to become Christian;)

It is irrelevant.

I agree, it is irrelevant to ones' salvation or leading someone to Christ.  One could add other mysterious visions like Fatima or Our Lady of Guadalupe.

Quote

Our Lady of Guadalupe

Official Catholic accounts claim that the Virgin Mary appeared four times before Juan Diego and once more before Juan Diego's uncle. According to those Catholic version accounts, the first apparition occurred on the morning of December 9, 1531, when it is said that a native Mexican peasant named Juan Diego experienced a vision of a young woman at a place called the Hill of Tepeyac, which would become part of Villa de Guadalupe, in a suburb of Mexico City.  - Wikipedia

On the other hand, I believe the Shroud of Turin is true, but I allow for the fact it might not be.  I consider it only a curiosity, not something to worship.

[Guest]

On 1/29/2019 at 4:47 PM, HAZARD said:

 Regarding the Shroud of Turin. If we go the Bible and accept the Scriptures, it must be false and it has nothing to do with Christ.

Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?" (1 Cor. 11:14).

Long hair is a glory and a covering for women not men.

"But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering." (1 Cor. 11:15).

These Scripture being recorded in the Bible, I doubt Jesus would have had long hair as many icons show? That fake shroud of Turin also shows long hair on the face of the one depicted on it, another proof it is a fake.

And Scripture teaches Jesus had a beard.

"I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting." (Isa. 50:6).

The shroud of Turin is like a bed sheet. Its one piece from head to toe. Jesus was wrapped in linen strips as the Scriptures teach, and His head was wrapped in a seperate napkin so that negates the shroud for a start. You probably know this anyway.

"Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie, And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself." (John 20:6-7).

What other requirements of the Laws of Moses are we to adhere to?  There are 613 commandments.  Do we pick and choose?  You are preaching legalism.  Men who wear long hair to attract other men for sin is an abomination.  It's also a choice people make.  My beard doesn't hold up to Biblical standards.  I don't have long hair but refuse to condemn those that do.

[simplejeff]

On 1/29/2019 at 3:47 PM, HAZARD said:

 Regarding the Shroud of Turin. If we go the Bible and accept the Scriptures, it must be false and it has nothing to do with Christ.

Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?" (1 Cor. 11:14).

Long hair is a glory and a covering for women not men.

"But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering." (1 Cor. 11:15).

These Scripture being recorded in the Bible, I doubt Jesus would have had long hair as many icons show? That fake shroud of Turin also shows long hair on the face of the one depicted on it, another proof it is a fake.

And Scripture teaches Jesus had a beard.

"I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting." (Isa. 50:6).

The shroud of Turin is like a bed sheet. Its one piece from head to toe. Jesus was wrapped in linen strips as the Scriptures teach, and His head was wrapped in a seperate napkin so that negates the shroud for a start. You probably know this anyway.

"Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie, And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself." (John 20:6-7).

 

Some people , billions of people,  think following  the world instead of following Jesus is okay.  And they like the entertainment,  until judgment day.

[HAZARD]

14 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

What other requirements of the Laws of Moses are we to adhere to?  There are 613 commandments.  Do we pick and choose?  You are preaching legalism.  Men who wear long hair to attract other men for sin is an abomination.  It's also a choice people make.  My beard doesn't hold up to Biblical standards.  I don't have long hair but refuse to condemn those that do.

You do what you like, Im not preaching anything.  Paul wrote in 1 Cor. 11:14, Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, HAZARD said:

You do what you like, Im not preaching anything.  Paul wrote in 1 Cor. 11:14, Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him? 

Define what is long hair in the Bible. 

Numbers 6:5 - 'All the days of his vow of separation no razor shall pass over his head. He shall be holy until the days are fulfilled for which he separated himself to the LORD; he shall let the locks of hair on his head grow long.  [NASB]

So I guess if we are following the strict legalistic letter of the Bible, you would have wives following the below scripture in Peter.

1 Peter 3:3 - Your adornment must not be merely external--braiding the hair, and wearing gold jewelry, or putting on dresses;
1 Peter 3:4 - but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God.  [NASB]

As for me, I don't support legalism.