Meanings of lists of names?

[porton]

Some Bible passages are of the form "X gave birth to Y, Y gave birth to Z, etc."

It looks like very uninteresting and boring for the readers.

My question: Can you suggest me to read any interpretations of such passages? Preferably on the Net, but a paper book (in English or Russian) on this topic wold be also of interest.

[Jayne]

I love the genealogies, but haven't always.  There was time I used to skip all of that. I don't anymore. Everytime I read them, I learn something that I did not know.

Here is the best answer in my book for why the genealogies are important.  https://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-genealogies.html

I just wrote a response to someone here about the differences between Mary and Joseph's lineage you might find interesting.

 

Quote

 

Just a side note on the genealogy:

Yes, Jesus is from the tribe of Judah.  It's foretold many times in the Old Testament beginning with Judah himself as his father, Jacob, prophesied to him on his death bed.

But Jesus is not the tribe of Judah.

There are two genealogies of Christ in the gospels. One in Matthew, one in Luke.

MATTHEW'S LINEAGE

• Matthew is writing to Jews.  Jews required some "credentials" for a man to be the Messiah.  First and foremost, he had to be a Jew.  That's why Matthew starts with Abraham and goes to Jesus.  He connects the legal dots there.  Matthew's gospel tells the story of Joseph, Herod, and the Wise Men. Not Mary's story.  This lineage is Joseph's literal bloodline.  Jews were legalistic about bloodlines and Mary is covered under Joseph legally. But this is not her literal bloodline.  Hers varies.  Else, they would be brother and sister.

LUKE'S LINEAGE

• Luke 3 gives a different lineage.  From Jesus, going backward, all the way to God. Luke was a Gentile writing to Gentiles. Gentiles had no knowledge of Jewish regulations concerning a Messiah and probably would not have neede to have Jesus "proven" to be a Jewish man.  What they needed to know that that Jesus was God and the Savior.  Luke connects those dots by tracing Jesus mentioning, but bypassing Abraham, all the way back to God.  Luke teaches in GREAT detail, Mary's story along with the shepherds and the Temple dedication.  This lineage is Mary's literal lineage.

 

• Both Mary and Joseph has he same ancestors down to King David.  That's where the two lines split.  Matthew says that Joseph comes of David's son, Solomon, and Luke says that Mary came from David's son Nathan.  From David on down to Jesus, the two lines are different making them very, very,  very distant cousins.  Something like 39th or so.  Distant enough to be considered "not related".  No incest.  

 

• Both lineages mention Joseph as father, but not the biological father.  Matthew says, "...and Matthan the father of Jacob, and Jacob the father of Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom Jesus was born, who is called Christ."   and Luke says, "....Jesus, when he began his ministry, was about thirty years of age, being the son (as was supposed) of Joseph, the son of Heli,  the son of Matthat, the son of Levi"   Mary's father was Heli, Joseph's father-in-law.  In-laws were considered practically like parents.  And a father's name had to be listed in these chronicles for them to carry legal weight.  Again, Mary, being Joseph's wife would be under his legal shelter.

 

 

Edited January 6, 2018 by Jayne

[BeyondET]

On January 6, 2018 at 11:17 AM, porton said:

Some Bible passages are of the form "X gave birth to Y, Y gave birth to Z, etc."

It looks like very uninteresting and boring for the readers.

My question: Can you suggest me to read any interpretations of such passages? Preferably on the Net, but a paper book (in English or Russian) on this topic wold be also of interest.

Most of the names were past kings, a lot of them are mentioned in the OT as such.

heres a write up I've done that can make it easier to understand the path of Matthew and Luke accounts of the geno. I use the NIV for simplified English wordage. Though I'm not much of a fan of the translation, Luke 3:23 where it says Jesus began his ministry at the age of thirty, is one example.

Mt1:1 
A record of the genealogy of Jesus Christ the son of David, the son of Abraham:

Mt1:17
Thus there were fourteen generations in all from Abraham to David, 
Fourteen from David to the exile to Babylon, and fourteen from the exile to the Christ.

(14) ~ generations ~ Mt1:6b: (1st) David was the father of  Solomon, whose mother had been Uriah's wife,

Mt1:7
(2nd) Solomon the father of Rehoboam, 
(3rd) Rehoboam the father of Abijah, 
(4th) Abijah the father of Asa,

Mt1:8
(5th) Asa the father of Jehoshaphat,
(6th) Jehoshaphat the father of Jehoram,
(7th) Jehoram the father of Uzziah,

Mt1:9 
(8th) Uzziah the father of Jotham,
(9th) Jotham the father of Ahaz,
(10th) Ahaz the father of Hezekiah,

Mt1:10
(11th) Hezekiah the father of Manasseh,
(12th) Manasseh the father of Amon,
(13th) Amon the father of Josiah,

Mt1:11 and (14th) Josiah the father of (Jeconiah) and his brothers at the time of the exile to Babylon.

(14) ~ generations ~ Mt1:12
After the exile to Babylon: 
(1st) Jeconiah was the father of Shealtiel,
(2nd) Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel,

Mt1:13
(3rd) Zerubbabel the father of Abiud,
(4th) Abiud the father of Eliakim,
(5th) Eliakim the father of Azor,

Mt1:14
(6th) Azor the father of Zadok,
(7th) Zadok the father of Akim,
(8th) Akim the father of Eliud,

Mt1:15
(9th) Eliud the father of Eleazar,
(10th) Eleazar the father of Matthan,
(11th) Matthan the father of Jacob,

Mt1:16
and (12th) Jacob the father of (13th) Joseph,
the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus,
who is called (14th) Christ.

(40) ~ generations ~ Lk3:23 
Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old, when he began his ministry. [Baptism]
He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph, and the son of (40th) Heli, [Mary’s father]

Lk3:24 
the son of (39th) Matthat,
the son of (38th) Levi,
the son of (37th) Melki,
the son of (36th) Jannai,
the son of (35th) Joseph,
Lk3:25 
the son of (34th) Mattathias,
the son of (33rd) Amos,
the son of (32nd) Nahum,
the son of (31st) Esli,
the son of (30th) Naggai,
Lk3:26 
the son of (29th) Maath,

the son of (28th) Mattathias,
the son of (27th) Semein,
the son of (26th) Josech,
the son of (25th) Joda,
Lk3:27 
the son of (24th) Joanan,
the son of (23rd) Rhesa,
the son of (22nd) Zerubbabel,
the son of (21st) Shealtiel,
the son of (20th) Neri,
Lk3:28 
the son of (19th) Melki,
the son of (18th) Addi,
the son of (17th) Cosam,
the son of (16th) Elmadam,
the son of (15th) Er,
Lk3:29 
the son of (14th) Joshua, 
the son of (13th) Eliezer,
the son of (12th) Jorim,
the son of (11th) Matthat,
the son of (10th) Levi,
Lk3:30 
the son of (9th) Simeon,
the son of (8th) Judah,
the son of (7th) Joseph,
the son of (6th) Jonam,
the son of (5th) Eliakim,
Lk3:31 
the son of (4th) Melea,
the son of (3rd) Menna,
the son of (2nd) Mattatha, 
the son of (1st) Nathan,
the son of  David,

(14) ~ generations
Mt1:6a: and (13th) Jesse the father of (14th) King David. Lk3:32a: the son of Jesse,

Mt1:5c: (12th) Obed the father of Jesse, Lk3:32b: the son of Obed,
Mt1:5b: (11th) Boaz the father of Obed, whose mother was Ruth, Lk3:32c: the son of Boaz,
Mt1:5a: (10th) Salmon the father of Boaz, whose mother was Rahab, Lk3:32d: the son of Salmon,

Mt1:4c: (9th) Nahshon the father of Salmon, Lk3:32e: the son of Nahshon,
Mt1:4b: (8th) Amminadab the father of Nahshon, Lk3:33a: the son of Amminadab,
Mt1:4a: (7th) Ram the father of Amminadab, Lk3:33b: the son of Ram,

Mt1:3c: (6th) Hezron the father of Ram, Lk3:33c: the son of Hezron,
Mt1:3b: (5th) Perez the father of Hezron, Lk3:33d: the son of Perez,
Mt1:3a: (4th) Judah the father of Perez and Zerah, whose mother was Tamar, Lk3:33e: the son of Judah,

Mt1:2c: (3rd) Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers, Lk3:34a: the son of Jacob,
Mt1:2b: (2nd) Isaac the father of Jacob, Lk3:34b: the son of Isaac,
Mt1:2a: (1st) Abraham was the father of Isaac, Lk3:34c: the son of Abraham,

(20) ~ generations
Lk3:34d: the son of (20th) Terah,
Lk3:34e: the son of (19th) Nahor,

Lk3:35 
the son of (18th) Serug,
the son of (17th) Reu,
the son of (16th) Peleg,
the son of (15th) Eber,
the son of (14th) Shelah,
Lk3:36 
the son of (13th) Cainan,
the son of (12th) Arphaxad,
the son of (11th) Shem,

the son of (10th) Noah,
the son of (9th) Lamech,
Lk3:37 
the son of (8th) Methuselah,
the son of (7th) Enoch,
the son of (6th) Jared,
the son of (5th) Mahalalel,
the son of (4th) Kenan,
Lk3:38 
the son of (3rd) Enosh,
the son of (2nd) Seth,
the son of (1st) Adam,
the son of God.

[TickledPinkinChristWoot!]

◄ Matthew 1:1 ►

The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.   There are some very good references already posted. I thought you might enjoy this one being a Christian. Blessings.

[Dennis1209]

On 1/6/2018 at 11:22 AM, Jayne said:

I love the genealogies, but haven't always.  There was time I used to skip all of that. I don't anymore. Everytime I read them, I learn something that I did not know.

Here is the best answer in my book for why the genealogies are important.  https://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-genealogies.html

I just wrote a response to someone here about the differences between Mary and Joseph's lineage you might find interesting.

 

 

Well Jane, 

I don't want to pop any balloons or bubbles, but there's a lot more to those genealogies hidden in all those begats, and I agree with you. 

I won't spoil the fun because I'd like you to discover it for yourself. 

All Hebrew names that were given has meaning, unlike today's names. If you will, take the first ten generations of Adam (Adam, Seth, Enosh, Kenan, Mahalalel, Jared, Enoch, Methuselah, Lamech and Noah) and translate their name meanings from Adam to Noah in accurate Hebrew, and read it as a sentence, tell me what it says? 

I'll even grade on the curve 

[porton]

@Dennis1209

For my surprise, I found no meaning whatsoever in Genesis 4:18 - https://withoutvowels.org/wiki/Blog:Main/My_failure_to_understand_Bible

Hasn't God provided any meanings? :-~ or just I am to blind to see it?! Why don't I discover any meaning?

[Dennis1209]

8 minutes ago, porton said:

@Dennis1209

For my surprise, I found no meaning whatsoever in Genesis 4:18 - https://withoutvowels.org/wiki/Blog:Main/My_failure_to_understand_Bible

Hasn't God provided any meanings? :-~ or just I am to blind to see it?! Why don't I discover any meaning?

I don't recall seeing anything about it on gotquestions.org or any other website. I read it in a book somewhere, maybe Dr. Chuck Missler, and checked it out myself in the Bible and reviewing Hebrew name meanings. 

I don't want to spill the beans until Jane has a chance to check it out, if she's interested, or someone else. Surely I won't be the one to put a needle to the balloon.

Edited January 20, 2018 by Dennis1209
Another spelling error

[Jayne]

I'll let you surprise me......go ahead and spill the beans.

[Persuaded]

First, I’m a fan of Missler’s, but I believe this is one of his over-reaches. My recollection is that he later regretted this sentence-from-the-names idea. 

It was based on a Hebrew root study, which is notoriously un-scholarly. Basically, it requires breaking large words into 2 and 3 letter assumed roots and then trying to infer a connotative meaning from the alternate meanings of those roots.

The result is at least two rather large conjectural steps removed from the text itself.

 

Setting aside the first step- breaking the words by “best guess” into roots- and to then maybe make a crude example of the next step:

If, in English, I see that one of the roots is to “beat”, noting the word means either to mix (like an egg), or to punish, I can then take a phrase that talks about cake making and suggest it’s alternate meaning is really about Jesus’ lashes.

Another way to express this is that it’s dangerous to try to translate by concordance or lexicon. There are often insights from those resources, but only if used with a knowledge of their limitations.

[BeyondET]

On January 20, 2018 at 4:54 PM, Dennis1209 said:

Well Jane, 

I don't want to pop any balloons or bubbles, but there's a lot more to those genealogies hidden in all those begats, and I agree with you. 

I won't spoil the fun because I'd like you to discover it for yourself. 

All Hebrew names that were given has meaning, unlike today's names. If you will, take the first ten generations of Adam (Adam, Seth, Enosh, Kenan, Mahalalel, Jared, Enoch, Methuselah, Lamech and Noah) and translate their name meanings from Adam to Noah in accurate Hebrew, and read it as a sentence, tell me what it says? 

I'll even grade on the curve 

Good points made, and if a person is reading the KJV, then no doubt more investigation is needed especially on what is the correct Hebrew names,

is it Kenan or Cainan

Enos or Enosh

Enoch or Henoch

Zidon or Sidon

are ust afew of the inconsistency of names in the KJV, I like the KJV but there's issues, like with any translations.