Is Same Sex Attraction a Sin? Or Only Homosexual Behavior?

[Guest shiloh357]

From the OP:

This leads to the second problem with the loving attempt to embrace SSA but deny homosexual behavior: it collides with reality. If the desire for sin is unmortified (Col. 3:5), then it will produce sinful behavior when presented with temptation. Here is the quandary well-meaning pro-SSA churches are going to have to face: can you really embrace the desire as unsinful and persist in condemning the behavior as sinful? For some churches today, the answer is No. Indeed, this is the testimony of those PCA churches who have left our denomination for LGBT-affirmning communions. They argue that it is unloving to consign people who for no fault of their own are same sex attraction to a life of sexless loneliness and they can no longer bring themselves to refuse church membership (and, with it, leadership) on this basis. Yet the biblical and practical reality is that desire and behavior cannot be separated. This is why Solomon urged us never to rest comfortably with corruptions in the heart, but urged: “Keep your heart with all vigilance, for from it flow the springs of life” (Prov. 4:23).

[Retrobyter]

37 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

I am not talking about a "propensity" toward something.   We are talking about sexual attraction.   That is far more than the notion of someone having a propensity.  I don't have a "propensity" toward being attracted to women.   I AM attracted to women.   There are men who are sexual attracted to men and there is no sinless way for that to happen.   I can be attracted to women and not lust.  God hardwired that attraction. There is no godly, sinless way to  be attracted to the opposite sex.

Shalom, shiloh357.

I think you mean, "There is no godly, sinless way to be attracted to the SAME sex (gender)."

Just how many potentially gay people do you know? Because, quite frankly, you're wrong. Some people ARE "hardwired" that way. And, just as you can say, "I can be attracted to women and not lust," these unfortunate people can say, "I can be attracted to men and not lust."

Guys are naturally and normally attracted to a beautiful woman. They might say she's "easy on the eyes" and still not lust after her.

However, there are some guys who are unnaturally and abnormally attracted to a handsome man. That's NOT A SIN! We might not like to say that "God hardwired that attraction," but God hardwired AN attraction and because of genetic confusion down through time or through mutation, it comes out twisted into such an attraction for men. It's not their fault or the fault of their parents, and it's certainly not GOD'S fault, but because sin and decay are in our environment and have been since the Fall, it's still there!

You just need to realize that "attraction" does NOT mean "lust!" It just makes it EASIER to lust if one CHOOSES to go that route. Just as it would be EASIER for a normally hardwired man to make the CHOICE to lust after a beautiful woman, and next to impossible for him to make the CHOICE to lust after a handsome man, there are individuals who would find it EASIER to make the CHOICE to lust after a handsome man, and next to impossible for him to CHOOSE to lust after a beautiful woman. It's uncomfortable for us to talk about, but it's just a statement of fact.

I went to a BIBLE COLLEGE with such an individual, and he was telling me how he came out of that "lifestyle!" He was blond, frail, of a slender build with tiny, slender hands for a guy, and one could tell that he was just plain built differently than most other guys! That was most assuredly NOT his fault!

In a community college, I took a class on biochemistry and human genetics, and normally females have XX chromosome pairs and males have XY chromosome pairs. However, there are times when these do not pair up correctly and some girls may only have a single X chromosome. Some boys have an extra X chromosome, making an XXY combination. Some girls have an extra X chromosome for an XXX combination, and some boys have an extra Y chromosome, XYY. (See What happens when there are too many chromosomes?) Some of these combinations are infertile and some make for a different perspective on the different genders. Sometimes, genetic variations can happen in other chromosomes and one can have Down Syndrome, Edwards Syndrome, Turner Syndrome, or Klinefelter Syndrome. NONE of this is their fault or the fault of their parents!

Never attribute to malice what can be explained by death and decay!

[Retrobyter]

2 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

From the OP:

This leads to the second problem with the loving attempt to embrace SSA but deny homosexual behavior: it collides with reality. If the desire for sin is unmortified (Col. 3:5), then it will produce sinful behavior when presented with temptation. Here is the quandary well-meaning pro-SSA churches are going to have to face: can you really embrace the desire as unsinful and persist in condemning the behavior as sinful? For some churches today, the answer is No. Indeed, this is the testimony of those PCA churches who have left our denomination for LGBT-affirmning communions. They argue that it is unloving to consign people who for no fault of their own are same sex attraction to a life of sexless loneliness and they can no longer bring themselves to refuse church membership (and, with it, leadership) on this basis. Yet the biblical and practical reality is that desire and behavior cannot be separated. This is why Solomon urged us never to rest comfortably with corruptions in the heart, but urged: “Keep your heart with all vigilance, for from it flow the springs of life” (Prov. 4:23).

Shalom, shiloh357.

As I was saying, the DESIRE is NOT "unsinful!" The ATTRACTION is unsinful! It's how they REACT to that attraction! Do they CHOOSE to follow that attraction with desire or lust? If so, then they are SINNING. If they do not, if they RESIST the temptation, then they are following God's Will! I think that's a VERY IMPORTANT distinction!

[Dennis1209]

37 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, shiloh357.

I think you mean, "There is no godly, sinless way to be attracted to the SAME sex (gender)."

Just how many potentially gay people do you know? Because, quite frankly, you're wrong. Some people ARE "hardwired" that way. And, just as you can say, "I can be attracted to women and not lust," these unfortunate people can say, "I can be attracted to men and not lust."

Guys are naturally and normally attracted to a beautiful woman. They might say she's "easy on the eyes" and still not lust after her.

However, there are some guys who are unnaturally and abnormally attracted to a handsome man. That's NOT A SIN! We might not like to say that "God hardwired that attraction," but God hardwired AN attraction and because of genetic confusion down through time or through mutation, it comes out twisted into such an attraction for men. It's not their fault or the fault of their parents, and it's certainly not GOD'S fault, but because sin and decay are in our environment and have been since the Fall, it's still there!

You just need to realize that "attraction" does NOT mean "lust!" It just makes it EASIER to lust if one CHOOSES to go that route. Just as it would be EASIER for a normally hardwired man to make the CHOICE to lust after a beautiful woman, and next to impossible for him to make the CHOICE to lust after a handsome man, there are individuals who would find it EASIER to make the CHOICE to lust after a handsome man, and next to impossible for him to CHOOSE to lust after a beautiful woman. It's uncomfortable for us to talk about, but it's just a statement of fact.

I went to a BIBLE COLLEGE with such an individual, and he was telling me how he came out of that "lifestyle!" He was blond, frail, of a slender build with tiny, slender hands for a guy, and one could tell that he was just plain built differently than most other guys! That was most assuredly NOT his fault!

In a community college, I took a class on biochemistry and human genetics, and normally females have XX chromosome pairs and males have XY chromosome pairs. However, there are times when these do not pair up correctly and some girls may only have a single X chromosome. Some boys have an extra X chromosome, making an XXY combination. Some girls have an extra X chromosome for an XXX combination, and some boys have an extra Y chromosome, XYY. (See What happens when there are too many chromosomes?) Some of these combinations are infertile and some make for a different perspective on the different genders. Sometimes, genetic variations can happen in other chromosomes and one can have Down Syndrome, Edwards Syndrome, Turner Syndrome, or Klinefelter Syndrome. NONE of this is their fault or the fault of their parents!

Never attribute to malice what can be explained by death and decay!

So, if I'm understanding you correctly, your claim is some people are naturally born that way, being hardwired? If that's your reasoning then I suggest murderers, pedophiles, etc. are born that way also, and doomed to commit those acts. I suggest we have free will choice to commit actions or not. That also IMO covers the thought process and keeping your mind into obedience and subjection. I believe there are external forces and circumstances that can alter your identity, but I don't believe anyone is born as a pervert. 

[Retrobyter]

2 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

So, if I'm understanding you correctly, your claim is some people are naturally born that way, being hardwired? If that's your reasoning then I suggest murderers, pedophiles, etc. are born that way also, and doomed to commit those acts. I suggest we have free will choice to commit actions or not. That also IMO covers the thought process and keeping your mind into obedience and subjection. I believe there are external forces and circumstances that can alter your identity, but I don't believe anyone is born as a pervert. 

Shalom, Dennis1209.

No, you're misunderstanding me. I'm not condoning what they do, but some people are INCLINED to commit particular sins BECAUSE they are so "hardwired" to do them! It means that IF one can identify his or her problem early enough, then he or she should make it a point to focus on that problem most!

For instance, I know that I love to eat. Therefore, it is easy for me to overeat. Gluttony is also a sin. It involves greed and selfishness, wastefulness, and it's a poor use of time. It's also bad for my health and it's hard to do some things when I'm overweight. So, I must guard myself against overeating; that's my "Achilles' heel." Or at least, one of them.

And, even a murderer ... like the Apostle Paul ... can be justified by God and dramatically changed!

[frienduff thaylorde]

On ‎2‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 1:00 PM, HAZARD said:

Romans 1:26-29,  26, For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
    27, And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
    28, And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate0 mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
    29, Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

Most Christians agree the Bible clearly teaches it is a sin to engage in homosexual behaviour. But what does the Bible teach about homosexual feelings? Is it a sin to simply feel romantic or sexual attraction to the same gender? I think it can be. I do not believe a person commits sexual sin merely by experiencing an unintentional, spontaneous temptation to sin sexually. But I do think a person commits sin if they choose to lustfully entertain the tempting thought rather than crushing it by directing their mind’s attention to Christ.

lust of any sort is sin .    The more they keep brining this up , the more they will continue to sway the church towards accepting it .  

FIGHT BACK WITH SCRIPS and not OPINIONS.  or sit back and let others contend.   

[frienduff thaylorde]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Dennis1209.

No, you're misunderstanding me. I'm not condoning what they do, but some people are INCLINED to commit particular sins BECAUSE they are so "hardwired" to do them! It means that IF one can identify his or her problem early enough, then he or she should make it a point to focus on that problem most!

For instance, I know that I love to eat. Therefore, it is easy for me to overeat. Gluttony is also a sin. It involves greed and selfishness, wastefulness, and it's a poor use of time. It's also bad for my health and it's hard to do some things when I'm overweight. So, I must guard myself against overeating; that's my "Achilles' heel." Or at least, one of them.

And, even a murderer ... like the Apostle Paul ... can be justified by God and dramatically changed!

but some people are INCLINED to commit particular sins BECAUSE they are so "hardwired" to do

IF a real born again converson has been made then anyone who reads what I am about to write will understand all else will ponder and attack it .

HERE GOES.   WE WERE ALL hardwired sinners  ,captive to sin.   ONLY IN CHRIST can one be made free.   instead of rebuking or attacking

JUST BELIEVE .    For all things are possible to he or she who believes.     Lust is sin ,  lust for same sex aint even natural.  SO something already has went way wrong

in that mind.    Sure CHRIST can heal and give a whole new mind.    And sure evils of our flesh will come at us

But trying to reason out anything about this   same sex attraction , just the fact the churches have even fell for that debate shows its crumbling.

I can hardly begin to imagine peter, paul, OR CHRIST himself saying............WELL now GOD understands ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,NOPE it would be go and sin no more .  

WE ought not even be discussing this .  that is what is sad.   cause I gurantee the more the churches try and reason this out ,  it only will lead them more and more

Into just accepting it as is .   

[frienduff thaylorde]

4 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

And you would be wrong.

Heterosexual attraction is unsinful.  Homosexual attraction is sinful.

No, they are not hardwired that way.  If they were, it would mean God designed them to be that way.   And that is an abomination.

Yes, it is a sin.   Are you attracted to men?   I mean, the way you defend this trash...

The Bible calls it perversion and an abomination and he hates.  It's not a mutation like male pattern baldness.  It is something that God hates.

I never claimed it was.   You just need to actually address what I wrote instead if trying refute arguments I never raised.  Think you can manage that, sport?

His physical attributes were not his fault, but his attraction to men and living in that lifestyle were certainly his fault.

 

Homosexuality isn't a genetic mutation.   It is a sin and an abomination. I will just stick with what God's word says about it and reject your silly ramblings.

Homsexuality as you say ,  IS NOT GENITIC.  you RIGHT ON .

And let one with multiple Genetic identical cousins as well as me myself am a genetic identical triplet.

TELL first hand that science on this ISFAKE .

HOW can it be genetic.   When one twin uncle was gay and the other Was NOT .  they are IDENTICAL GENETIC

as me and my two brothers are .  SO why was one of us gay and the other two AINT .  but thankfully HE actually came to Christ and that abomination

was completely removed from him.  COMPLETELY .  yeah this world lies .  

[Retrobyter]

2 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

And you would be wrong.

Shalom, shiloh.

Nonsense. You're just a nay-sayer.

2 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

Heterosexual attraction is unsinful.  Homosexual attraction is sinful.

No. The attraction is NOT sinful; following through on that attraction with the first lustful thought is what is sinful. If you don't know that, then you will have absolutely ZILCH credibility with anyone who has that ... persuasion.

2 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

No, they are not hardwired that way.  If they were, it would mean God designed them to be that way.   And that is an abomination.

As I said, God is absolutely NOT responsible for the results of sin and death and decay! Don't be foolish! Did God design alcoholics with a taste for liquor?! NO! That propensity - "an inclination or natural tendency to behave in a particular way" - comes from the RESULTS OF SIN AND DEATH AND DECAY! GOD'S DESIGN IS NOT THE ABOMINATION! IT'S ALL THE ACCUMULATIVE EFFECTS FROM THE COLLECTIVE, POOR CHOICES THAT HUMAN BEINGS HAVE MADE SINCE THE FIRST SIN!

2 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

Yes, it is a sin.   Are you attracted to men?   I mean, the way you defend this trash...

Now, you've crossed the line! I am and always have been heterosexual, and I am TICKED OFF that you would even ASK such a thing! You made this personal; so, I'll return the favor! I'm reporting your insult! That was TOTALLY an un-Christian thing to say!

2 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

The Bible calls it perversion and an abomination and he hates.  It's not a mutation like male pattern baldness.  It is something that God hates.

The act, and as you noted, even the thought of lust is the perversion and the abomination! I'm talking about the SOURCE of that attraction BEFORE it becomes sin, not the homosexuality itself!

2 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

I never claimed it was.   You just need to actually address what I wrote instead if trying refute arguments I never raised.  Think you can manage that, sport?

Enough of your hateful attitude, .... SPORT! You have demonstrated even in THIS post that you haven't figured out, yet, that there is indeed a difference between the attraction and the lust/desire that goes beyond the attraction.

2 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

His physical attributes were not his fault, but his attraction to men and living in that lifestyle were certainly his fault.

YES! I don't deny that! I'm just trying to show how such attraction gets its start! If a person chooses to PURSUE that attraction and lust after an individual of the same gender, and chooses to PERFORM such acts, living in that lifestyle, then they surely ARE sinning.

2 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

Homosexuality isn't a genetic mutation.   It is a sin and an abomination. I will just stick with what God's word says about it and reject your silly ramblings.

Homosexuality THE ACT is not a genetic mutation, but the PROPENSITY to be attracted to same gender CAN INDEED be caused by genetic mutation! DO THE RESEARCH!

 

 

 

[Retrobyter]

17 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

but some people are INCLINED to commit particular sins BECAUSE they are so "hardwired" to do

IF a real born again converson has been made then anyone who reads what I am about to write will understand all else will ponder and attack it .

HERE GOES.   WE WERE ALL hardwired sinners  ,captive to sin.   ONLY IN CHRIST can one be made free.   instead of rebuking or attacking

JUST BELIEVE .    For all things are possible to he or she who believes.     Lust is sin ,  lust for same sex aint even natural.  SO something already has went way wrong

in that mind.    Sure CHRIST can heal and give a whole new mind.    And sure evils of our flesh will come at us

But trying to reason out anything about this   same sex attraction , just the fact the churches have even fell for that debate shows its crumbling.

I can hardly begin to imagine peter, paul, OR CHRIST himself saying............WELL now GOD understands ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,NOPE it would be go and sin no more .  

WE ought not even be discussing this .  that is what is sad.   cause I gurantee the more the churches try and reason this out ,  it only will lead them more and more

Into just accepting it as is .   

Shalom, frienduff thaylorde.

I'm in total agreement with you on this. One MUST be hard-nosed against sin, but one should also have faith in God that He can do what is humanly impossible in the lives of human beings.