Retrobyter Posted February 16, 2018 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 9 Topic Count: 40 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 6,574 Content Per Day: 1.07 Reputation: 2,440 Days Won: 1 Joined: 06/28/2007 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/28/1957 Share Posted February 16, 2018 23 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said: Homsexuality as you say , IS NOT GENITIC. you RIGHT ON . And let one with multiple Genetic identical cousins as well as me myself am a genetic identical triplet. TELL first hand that science on this ISFAKE . HOW can it be genetic. When one twin uncle was gay and the other Was NOT . they are IDENTICAL GENETIC as me and my two brothers are . SO why was one of us gay and the other two AINT . but thankfully HE actually came to Christ and that abomination was completely removed from him. COMPLETELY . yeah this world lies . Shalom, again, frienduff thaylorde. Allow me to clarify my position. I'm not saying that EVERY inclination to lust after members of the same gender come from genetic mix-ups or mutations. I'm just saying that it is ONE possible source of such a "persuasion." Sometimes, it happens because a person was abused as a child. Sometimes, it just happens because a person comes across some homosexual pornography. Who knows (but God, of course) how your brother CHOSE that "lifestyle" temporarily? I'm just glad that He came to Christ! However, I KNOW from personal experience that genetic mutations can be a source of such behavior. I once was attacked in the bathroom by a fellow student with Down Syndrome when I was in Junior High School. I was mad as a hornet against that kid and would have beat him to a pulp if some of my friends hadn't pulled me aside and calmed me down. Well, I was still mad and didn't trust him after that, but I could understand that he was confused on such issues as what constitutes "appropriate and inappropriate behavior." I took consolation in the fact that he was disadvantaged and knew that God still loved him. So, I learned that I could love him as God loved him, too, for Christ's sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted February 16, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 16, 2018 "But the difficulty is an evil heart. No matter how it is repressed, until it is taken away, sanctification has not even begun. Sanctification deals with the perverted will, the wrong desire, the evil inclination, the old Adam that is stronger than young Melancthon still. Your best efforts will be baffled until you get him crucified. This Christ provides for. The first thing to do is to surrender yourself to be crucified with Jesus Christ. Sanctification is not improving your habits by culture, nor is it cleansing your heart; but it is handing the natural life over to death as a useless thing, so bad that you can never make it good, and getting instead something entirely new through union with Jesus; receiving Him to dwell within you, to work through you, to be your Substitute, and to give you His Holy Spirit instead of your old heart." "I. THE CARNAL HEART, THE OLD AND SINFUL NATURE. “From whence come wars and fightings among you? Come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?” This is the root of all our sorrow and sin, the evil heart. There is no use in trying to put on new garments till you get the old body cleansed. Nor must the cleansing stop at the skin. It must reach the heart and the very marrow of the bones." http://www.worthychristianlibrary.com/ab-simpson/practical-christianity/chapter-6-practical-sanctification/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted February 16, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 16, 2018 "The beginning of sanctification, therefore, is to see that you are utterly wrong in your desires and choices. " http://www.worthychristianlibrary.com/ab-simpson/practical-christianity/chapter-6-practical-sanctification/ " II. THE FORBIDDEN WORLD, THE EVIL WORLD, THE WORLD WHICH STANDS FOR THE ENVIRONMENT OF THE NATURAL AND SELF LIFE. Not only are you wrong, but you are encompassed with a world that is wrong, and you must get out of the world as well as out of yourself. This is separation which must always accompany sanctification. Sanctification is seeing that you are wrong and handing yourself over to Christ by His Holy Spirit to make you right. Separation is pronouncing sentence of death on the world as well as on yourself, and entering into a new world, the world of the unseen" "“Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? Whosoever, therefore, will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God” (Jas. 4:4)." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted February 16, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 16, 2018 Worthy Christian Library » A.B. Simpson » The Names of Jesus » Chapter 13 – The Refiner Chapter 13 – The Refiner "Put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him.” He that abides in Him ought, “to walk, even as He walked.” Not only does it unfold a higher standard, but it reveals a deeper, more interior life, a life that reaches even to the heart, the thoughts, the motives, the desires; which requires us to love the Lord with all our heart, and soul, and mind, and strength; to not only abstain from impurity, but from unholy thought and feeling; not only to do right, but to do right from a right motive." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted February 16, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 16, 2018 Worthy Christian Library » A.B. Simpson » Walking in the Spirit » Chapter 7 – The Spirit of Holiness http://www.worthychristianlibrary.com/ab-simpson/walking-in-the-spirit/chapter-7-the-spirit-of-holiness/ Chapter 7 – The Spirit of Holiness “Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ.” 1 Peter 1: 2. "By nature and tradition many persons are prone to take a very different view of this subject, and to regard the experience of holiness as a sort of exceptional life for a few distinguished Christians, but not expected of all the disciples of Christ. But the awakened and startled mind discovers, in the light of Scripture and of the Holy Spirit, the falseness of this delusion, and the inflexible terms in which God’s Word requires that all His people should be holy in heart and life. In the searching light of truth it trembles as it reads, “Without holiness no man shall see the Lord.” “Into heaven there entereth nothing that defileth, nor worketh abomination, nor maketh a lie.” “Blessed are they that wash their robes that they may have right to the Tree of Life and may enter in through the gates into the city.” “He that walketh uprightly and worketh righteousness shall see the King in His beauty and behold the land that is very far off.” “Who shall ascend unto the hill of the Lord or stand in His holy place? He that hath clean hands and a pure heart.” “Be ye holy even as I am holy; be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect.” “These things have I written unto you that ye sin not. He that abideth in Him sinneth not; he that sinneth hath not seen Him neither known Him.” At this point the soul is compelled to face a very solemn crisis; either it must accept the Word of God literally and implicitly, or it must turn it aside by human tradition, and explain away its most plain and emphatic teachings, and render it of no effect in any of its promises or commands, and so enter upon a course which must end in practical infidelity." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted February 16, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 16, 2018 "5. But the Spirit not only reveals Christ, but He actually brings him to occupy and abide in the heart. It is not enough to see, we must receive Him and become personally united to Him through the Holy Ghost. In order to do this there must be, on our part, a complete surrender and self-renunciation, followed by a definite act of appropriating faith. By it we receive the Lord Jesus Christ, and become filled with the Holy Ghost. In both of these we are led and enabled by the Holy Spirit. Through His gracious influence we present our bodies a living sacrifice, yield ourselves unto God in unreserved consecration, hand over to Him the old life of self and sin to be slain and buried forever, and offer ourselves to His absolute ownership, possession, and disposition, unconditionally and irrevocably. " http://www.worthychristianlibrary.com/ab-simpson/walking-in-the-spirit/chapter-7-the-spirit-of-holiness/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 3 hours ago, Retrobyter said: No. The attraction is NOT sinful; following through on that attraction with the first lustful thought is what is sinful. The attraction is sinful. Sin doesn't begin when you act on it. It begins with the attraction. And part of the problem is that you are making arguments that really only apply to heterosexuality. I can be sinlessly attracted to the opposite sex. There is no biblical scenario where it is okay to be attracted to something sinful, so long as I don't act on it. You're thinking like the world, not like a Christian. Quote If you don't know that, then you will have absolutely ZILCH credibility with anyone who has that ... persuasion. LOL, I am not going to lose any sleep worried about my "credibility" with the Sodomites; I could not care less what they think. I am more concerned with staying faithful to the Word of God and what it teaches. Quote As I said, God is absolutely NOT responsible for the results of sin and death and decay! Don't be foolish! Did God design alcoholics with a taste for liquor?! NO! That propensity - "an inclination or natural tendency to behave in a particular way" - comes from the RESULTS OF SIN AND DEATH AND DECAY! GOD'S DESIGN IS NOT THE ABOMINATION! IT'S ALL THE ACCUMULATIVE EFFECTS FROM THE COLLECTIVE, POOR CHOICES THAT HUMAN BEINGS HAVE MADE SINCE THE FIRST SIN If that is what you believe, then you will have to abandon the claim that homosexuals are hardwired to be gay, as you stated previously. You can't have it both ways. I agree that it comes from sin and is a sin. I reject any claim that it is hardwired into anyone. It seems like you toggle back and forth between calling it a sin and then trying to justify it as something that is hardwired into them. You need to pick a position and land on it. Quote The act, and as you noted, even the thought of lust is the perversion and the abomination! I'm talking about the SOURCE of that attraction BEFORE it becomes sin, not the homosexuality itself! There is no non-sinful source for sinful attraction. That makes no sense. Quote Enough of your hateful attitude, .... SPORT! You have demonstrated even in THIS post that you haven't figured out, yet, that there is indeed a difference between the attraction and the lust/desire that goes beyond the attraction. In heterosexuality, yes; in homosexuality, no. The problem is that you are defending homosexual attraction like it is an exact moral parallel to heterosexuality. It's as if you think that the principles that govern heterosexuality taught in the Bible apply to homosexuality and same-sex attraction in the same way. Quote YES! I don't deny that! I'm just trying to show how such attraction gets its start! If a person chooses to PURSUE that attraction and lust after an individual of the same gender, and chooses to PERFORM such acts, living in that lifestyle, then they surely ARE sinning. And that confirms my previous point, that you are treating this as if it is morally parallel in principle to how we treat attraction between men and women. That is one of the fundamental flaws of your argument. Quote Homosexuality THE ACT is not a genetic mutation, but the PROPENSITY to be attracted to same gender CAN INDEED be caused by genetic mutation! DO THE RESEARCH! That is a human line of reasoning, not a biblical one. The Bible doesn't allow for genetic mutation as an excuse to nurse a sinful attraction. If it is genetic, then it isn't sinful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 3 hours ago, Retrobyter said: Now, you've crossed the line! I am and always have been heterosexual, and I am TICKED OFF that you would even ASK such a thing! You made this personal; so, I'll return the favor! I'm reporting your insult! That was TOTALLY an un-Christian thing to say! All I did was ask you if you were attracted to men. It was on purpose because I wanted to see how you would respond. You said that same-sex attraction isn't sinful, and you have been defending it as just a genetic mutation and so on. So there is no reason to get offended by it. Your response shows that despite your academic attempt to defend it as normal and perfectly sinless and not in contradiction with Scripture, despite all of that, there is something in you that is naturally offended by it. That someone would dare to ask you if you were attracted to men, provoked the God-given inner knowledge that something like same-sex attraction is sinful and offensive. The fact that you got THAT offended by the question over what you say is normal and unsinful and inoffensive for someone else to have, demonstrates that you really don't believe what you're claiming, when the rubber meets the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
listener24 Posted February 16, 2018 Group: Senior Member Followers: 43 Topic Count: 43 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 650 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 759 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/23/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 16, 2018 8 hours ago, Retrobyter said: Shalom, shiloh. Nonsense. You're just a nay-sayer. No. The attraction is NOT sinful; following through on that attraction with the first lustful thought is what is sinful. If you don't know that, then you will have absolutely ZILCH credibility with anyone who has that ... persuasion. As I said, God is absolutely NOT responsible for the results of sin and death and decay! Don't be foolish! Did God design alcoholics with a taste for liquor?! NO! That propensity - "an inclination or natural tendency to behave in a particular way" - comes from the RESULTS OF SIN AND DEATH AND DECAY! GOD'S DESIGN IS NOT THE ABOMINATION! IT'S ALL THE ACCUMULATIVE EFFECTS FROM THE COLLECTIVE, POOR CHOICES THAT HUMAN BEINGS HAVE MADE SINCE THE FIRST SIN! Now, you've crossed the line! I am and always have been heterosexual, and I am TICKED OFF that you would even ASK such a thing! You made this personal; so, I'll return the favor! I'm reporting your insult! That was TOTALLY an un-Christian thing to say! The act, and as you noted, even the thought of lust is the perversion and the abomination! I'm talking about the SOURCE of that attraction BEFORE it becomes sin, not the homosexuality itself! Enough of your hateful attitude, .... SPORT! You have demonstrated even in THIS post that you haven't figured out, yet, that there is indeed a difference between the attraction and the lust/desire that goes beyond the attraction. YES! I don't deny that! I'm just trying to show how such attraction gets its start! If a person chooses to PURSUE that attraction and lust after an individual of the same gender, and chooses to PERFORM such acts, living in that lifestyle, then they surely ARE sinning. Homosexuality THE ACT is not a genetic mutation, but the PROPENSITY to be attracted to same gender CAN INDEED be caused by genetic mutation! DO THE RESEARCH! Thanks @Retrobyter for saving me time, by writing precisely correct things. I don' t know btw where the fixation for homosexuality comes from in many Christians btw, since in the Gospel I've never read Jesus saying a word about it, so if we should estimate a percentage of Jesus' mentions on the topic would be. 0%, while for some Christian would be 60/70%, they are obsessed and need to talk about it periodically just as other people didn' t know already what they think about it. To these ones: get over it. Read the Gospel more and try to talk more about what Jesus talked about, in the same percentage. Also, I think that since primary school I haven' t seen something as ludicrous as the OT discussing your sexuality just because He wasn' t able to answer your rational considerations, we are beyond ridiculousness there and someone if He wants to demonstrate his adulthood for one time should just apologize Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 8 minutes ago, listener24 said: Thanks @Retrobyter for saving me time, by writing precisely correct things. No, pretty much every he said was wrong, biblically. Quote I don' t know btw where the fixation for homosexuality comes from in many Christians btw, since in the Gospel I've never read Jesus saying a word about it, so if we should estimate a percentage of Jesus' mentions on the topic would be. 0%, while for some Christian would be 60/70%, they are obsessed and need to talk about it periodically just as other people didn' t know already what they think about it. To these ones: get over it. Read the Gospel more and try to talk more about what Jesus talked about, in the same percentage. And if we followed that warped logic, we should not talk about spousal abuse, rape, child molestation, human trafficking, drug abuse, sex before marriage, since Jesus didn't talk about those, either. The reason it is an issue is because liberal Christians and nonbelievers are united in forcing their perverted views on LGBT and gay marriage onto the Church and are hell bent on normalizing that lifestyle in the Church. It has to be talked about because so many Christians are aiming at changing homosexuality into a lifestyle choice rather than calling it a sin. Quote Also, I think that since primary school I haven' t seen something as ludicrous as the OT discussing your sexuality just because He wasn' t able to answer your rational considerations, we are beyond ridiculousness there and someone if He wants to demonstrate his adulthood for one time should just apologize Nothing to apologize for. All of his "considerations" have been answered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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