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WHAT IS THE FALLING AWAY

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 2 Thessalonians 2:3   Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

 

 

Revelation 1:12   And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

Revelation 1:20   The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

 

The seven candlesticks represent the seven churches.  The seven churches which existed before until the end of this age represent believers who are put into seven different categories with their varied beliefs and fruits.  Each church was given encouragement and warnings to repent on the things which they lack, or else the "light" of the candlestick would be removed.  What keeps that flame burning is the oil.  Oil is faith.  Faith keeps the light on, so it doesn't go dark and we stumble.

By the time the end of this age nears, if those churches do not repent of the warnings, then that light will grow dim, and eventually be removed.

We were told by Paul that "the Falling away" will come.  So we already know what the end result is.

 

Zechariah 4:1   And the angel that talked with me came again, and waked me, as a man that is wakened out of his sleep,

Zechariah 4:2   And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:

Zechariah 4:3   And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.

Zechariah 4:11   Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?

  Zechariah 4:12   And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?

  Zechariah 4:13   And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.

  Zechariah 4:14   Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

 

At the end times, God will send his two witnesses to provide the oil to keep the flame burning for the churches to keep their light from going out.  This oil that they have been annointed with is faith, and this is the fuel they pour into the golden pipes for the candlesticks of the seven churches to keep their flame from going out.  Out of each of these churches, some individuals will repent, and this flame is for them,  to keep the faith going, and endure until the end no matter what. 

As for the rest of the congregations who did not repent, the flame will be removed from them, and this is the falling away.

These days coming will be so evil, that the FP will remove all Christian Churches, and buildings, and organisations, and meeting places etc, but do not fret, because this is God's will, as he is punishing those leaders who have corrupted these churches, and the followers who have been led blindly, will need some of this oil that that the two witnesses will provide.  All will be on his own.  What the two witnesses will bring on the earth, all the plagues,... is for encouragement and faith in the God we serve who is finally bringing justice before our eyes. 

Let this be your fuel, that faith to endure to the end.  We will not have anyone holding our hand but the Lord and that faith he provides.

 

 Jeremiah 10:21   For the pastors are become brutish, and have not sought the LORD: therefore they shall not prosper, and all their flocks shall be scattered.


Jeremiah 12:10   Many pastors have destroyed my vineyard, they have trodden my portion under foot, they have made my pleasant portion a desolate wilderness.

Jeremiah 12:11   They have made it desolate, and being desolate it mourneth unto me; the whole land is made desolate, because no man layeth it to heart.

Jeremiah 12:12   The spoilers are come upon all high places through the wilderness: for the sword of the LORD shall devour from the one end of the land even to the other end of the land: no flesh shall have peace. (none who are in that land....Babylon)
 

 

 

 

 

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I like to look up words that I want to know more about in Strong's Concordance.  For one thing, I can see the original word and definition and for another thing I can see everywhere else in the Bible where that word is used.

I just looked up "falling away".  https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=G646&t=KJV

In your verse - from 2 Thessalonians - it's the Greek word, apostasia, and it literally means to forsake or defect.

It's only found twice in the King James New Testament and it's translating this way.

 Act 21:21 - "And they are informed of thee [Paul], that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

2 Th 2:3 - "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition..."

To me, it means that there is going to a great defection of people who called themselves Christians, were really weren't towards the end.  It's not a hill I'm willing to die on and I know that there are others who believe it to mean something else and I won't argue with them.

 

Edited by Jayne

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4 hours ago, Jayne said:

To me, it means that there is going to a great defection of people who called themselves Christians, were really weren't towards the end.  It's not a hill I'm willing to die on and I know that there are others who believe it to mean something else and I won't argue with them.

Hi Jayne

Yes, I guess you could say that is what it means, but it will be a time of testing Jayne, it is going to be horrible.  I always took for granted that every one knew what the falling away was going to be, but I was wrong. 

The falling away is the mass separation between the church and Christ.  Many will fall because the delusion will be so strong and persecutions will be taking place.  One by one they will fall.  It is a great falling away because it will happen on such a large scale.  The congregations will be split up,  divided, and scattered because of fear and terror.  Brother will go against brother, and there will be such a division.

The green pastures, and the safe havens where the flock usually feed will be dried up.  No one will come, they will be too afraid.  The FP who thinks he is god, will make it hard for all Christians who have had that liberty to preach and worship openly. 

All the pastors who taught their flock lies will be hated when their congregation finds themselves still here in this chaos and madness.  They will all turn against each other.  Revenge will be in their hearts.  It is going to be awful, and the light of the churches will be put out, that is why we need our own faith, to keep that light burning inside us.

Remember, all that is coming is only to weed out the goats, not the sheep.

 

 

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10 hours ago, Sister said:

 2 Thessalonians 2:3   Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

 

 

Revelation 1:12   And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;

Revelation 1:20   The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

 

The seven candlesticks represent the seven churches.  The seven churches which existed before until the end of this age represent believers who are put into seven different categories with their varied beliefs and fruits.  Each church was given encouragement and warnings to repent on the things which they lack, or else the "light" of the candlestick would be removed.  What keeps that flame burning is the oil.  Oil is faith.  Faith keeps the light on, so it doesn't go dark and we stumble.

By the time the end of this age nears, if those churches do not repent of the warnings, then that light will grow dim, and eventually be removed.

We were told by Paul that "the Falling away" will come.  So we already know what the end result is.

 

Zechariah 4:1   And the angel that talked with me came again, and waked me, as a man that is wakened out of his sleep,

Zechariah 4:2   And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:

Zechariah 4:3   And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.

Zechariah 4:11   Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?

  Zechariah 4:12   And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?

  Zechariah 4:13   And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.

  Zechariah 4:14   Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.

 

At the end times, God will send his two witnesses to provide the oil to keep the flame burning for the churches to keep their light from going out.  This oil that they have been annointed with is faith, and this is the fuel they pour into the golden pipes for the candlesticks of the seven churches to keep their flame from going out.  Out of each of these churches, some individuals will repent, and this flame is for them,  to keep the faith going, and endure until the end no matter what. 

As for the rest of the congregations who did not repent, the flame will be removed from them, and this is the falling away.

These days coming will be so evil, that the FP will remove all Christian Churches, and buildings, and organisations, and meeting places etc, but do not fret, because this is God's will, as he is punishing those leaders who have corrupted these churches, and the followers who have been led blindly, will need some of this oil that that the two witnesses will provide.  All will be on his own.  What the two witnesses will bring on the earth, all the plagues,... is for encouragement and faith in the God we serve who is finally bringing justice before our eyes. 

Let this be your fuel, that faith to endure to the end.  We will not have anyone holding our hand but the Lord and that faith he provides.

 

 Jeremiah 10:21   For the pastors are become brutish, and have not sought the LORD: therefore they shall not prosper, and all their flocks shall be scattered.


Jeremiah 12:10   Many pastors have destroyed my vineyard, they have trodden my portion under foot, they have made my pleasant portion a desolate wilderness.

Jeremiah 12:11   They have made it desolate, and being desolate it mourneth unto me; the whole land is made desolate, because no man layeth it to heart.

Jeremiah 12:12   The spoilers are come upon all high places through the wilderness: for the sword of the LORD shall devour from the one end of the land even to the other end of the land: no flesh shall have peace. (none who are in that land....Babylon)
 

I disagree. The King James translation here is a very poor translation of the intent of the Author.  It was never meant to be a falling away. It is a departing. The first several translations into English use "departing." Many people wish to ADD to scripture and say this is a falling away FROM God or from truth. But what is being departed from is NOT THERE in the Greek. It is just a simple "departing." IN CONTEXT we must look at the theme of this passage, which is the rapture or gathering when He comes. 

When He comes and gathers those that are His, as in the rapture event, would that be a "departing?" Of course it would.  then, when you understand verses 6-8 and know that there is something or Someone putting a restraining force or holding down force to prevent the man of sin from being revealed before his time, then notice that in verse 3b he has been revealed, this can only mean ONE THING: in verse 3a the restraining force HAS BEEN departed or "taken out of the way."

Therefore, the restraining force "taken out of the way" MUST in the intent of the Author in the Greek word, "apostasia."  The first translators into English got it right with a departing. There is therefore, not a "falling away" (from what we don't know) but rather a CATCHING Away that is a departing from earth as Jesus calls up first the dead in Christ, then those who are alive and in Christ.

 

The truth is, in every generation some fall away but MORE come to Christ. Since the beginning the church has GROWN. In the past 30 years or so, the church has grown very quickly. 

Edited by iamlamad

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9 hours ago, Jayne said:

I like to look up words that I want to know more about in Strong's Concordance.  For one thing, I can see the original word and definition and for another thing I can see everywhere else in the Bible where that word is used.

I just looked up "falling away".  https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=G646&t=KJV

In your verse - from 2 Thessalonians - it's the Greek word, apostasia, and it literally means to forsake or defect.

It's only found twice in the King James New Testament and it's translating this way.

 Act 21:21 - "And they are informed of thee [Paul], that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

2 Th 2:3 - "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition..."

To me, it means that there is going to a great defection of people who called themselves Christians, were really weren't towards the end.  It's not a hill I'm willing to die on and I know that there are others who believe it to mean something else and I won't argue with them.

 

YOu did not go far enough. If you go further in Strongs, and find that this word is a compound word, with APO as the first word, Strong's tells us this word means removing a PART of a group from the WHOLE group, spacially - that is from one place to another place. Adding the rest of the compound word in, it means this moving of a part of the group is done so fast, the rest of the group is seen not to move....as in stationary. Indeed, Strong's definition fits Paul's rapture very well.  No wonder the first translations into English used the word "departing." When we consider that Paul's theme is the rapture or gathering, it makes perfect sense.

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3 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

YOu did not go far enough. If you go further in Strongs, and find that this word is a compound word, with APO as the first word, Strong's tells us this word means removing a PART of a group from the WHOLE group, spacially - that is from one place to another place. Adding the rest of the compound word in, it means this moving of a part of the group is done so fast, the rest of the group is seen not to move....as in stationary. Indeed, Strong's definition fits Paul's rapture very well.  No wonder the first translations into English used the word "departing." When we consider that Paul's theme is the rapture or gathering, it makes perfect sense.

If that were true, the passage would essentially be saying that the rapture (our gathering to Him) won't happen unless the rapture happens first?

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1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

I disagree. The King James translation here is a very poor translation of the intent of the Author. 

iamlamad

Blame it on the KJV now?  That's your opinion.  Satan has attacked this book more than any other book.  It remains unchanged, whilst the newer translations are always being edited.  I will stick with the one that has stayed the same, and God led me to this one.

Can't you see that now with all the new translations, we can't use scripture for proof anymore?  This is part of the falling away also, to make the conditions ripe.  Put us all into confusion,...but I am not confused brother.

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

It was never meant to be a falling away. It is a departing. The first several translations into English use "departing." Many people wish to ADD to scripture and say this is a falling away FROM God or from truth. But what is being departed from is NOT THERE in the Greek. It is just a simple "departing." IN CONTEXT we must look at the theme of this passage, which is the rapture or gathering when He comes. 

Did the KJV come before your translation?  If I wrote a song and published it, and you came along 600 yrs after, claiming the song was originally yours, and that I added to it,....I would laugh, and say that you had all this time to make your claim, and you should of struck it when the iron was hot.  I would also charge you with plagiarism, because I had the initial rights, and then I would ask the judge to throw you in jail for trying to discredit my name, by cashing in on my own hard labour!  :D

Falling away.....is to fall away from the truth, from Christ, and from faith.  Fall, not rise.

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

When He comes and gathers those that are His, as in the rapture event, would that be a "departing?" Of course it would. 

But that's not what it's saying.  Paul starts with speaking of the return of Christ and the gathering of the saints, to not be shaken as if that day was at hand.  He then explains why.  The Falling away must come first,...when there is no truth to uphold the flock in the churches,....then the Son of Perdition will come, and evil will be destroyed by the brightness of the Lord's coming.   God is "he" who "lets" this evil man emerge on the world scene at his timing, ...when God says now....because the fulness of the gentiles have to come in. 

Evil will continue until this man is put out of the way - consumed at the coming.  Not the church.  I can post it again, but what's the point, you already got your mind made up.  That's fine, but I will continue answering out of courtesy brother.
 

Quote

 

then, when you understand verses 6-8 and know that there is something or Someone putting a restraining force or holding down force to prevent the man of sin from being revealed before his time, then notice that in verse 3b he has been revealed, this can only mean ONE THING: in verse 3a the restraining force HAS BEEN departed or "taken out of the way."


 

can't help myself!

2 Thessalonians 2:6   And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

2 Thessalonians 2:7   For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

What witholds the Coming, and the gathering of the saints are these events that he already spoke about;

 2 Thessalonians 2:3   Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
 

He's revealed at the COMING, when Christ returns for his saints.  That day shall not come until all this happens first.

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

The truth is, in every generation some fall away but MORE come to Christ. Since the beginning the church has GROWN. In the past 30 years or so, the church has grown very quickly. 

The church has grown rapidly, but not the true believers.  The falling away means the opposite. Plenty will fall, not rise.  Many are called but few are chosen.  In the last generation we shall see it. 

 

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2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

YOu did not go far enough. If you go further in Strongs, and find that this word is a compound word, with APO as the first word, Strong's tells us this word means removing a PART of a group from the WHOLE group, spacially - that is from one place to another place. Adding the rest of the compound word in, it means this moving of a part of the group is done so fast, the rest of the group is seen not to move....as in stationary. Indeed, Strong's definition fits Paul's rapture very well.  No wonder the first translations into English used the word "departing." When we consider that Paul's theme is the rapture or gathering, it makes perfect sense.

I know that there are two sides to this coin.  Some believe this verse to speak of the rapture and the rest believe it to speak of a defection of unbelievers who once falsely professed to believe.  As I said, my opinion not a hill I'm willing to die on.

I found your definition in Thayer's lexicon which can be found starting in Strong's. http://biblehub.com/greek/575.htm  It took a while combing that page but I found your source. But what I read was "of the separation of apart from the whole; where of a whole some part is taken".

I didn't read "removing a PART of a group from the WHOLE".  I read "of a separation of apart from the whole".  I think that's two different things.  If I didn't quote the source you did, please tell me.

And across the whole page, and I did read the whole page in that link above....[groan]....all of the usage show was, to me, in terms of a part of the group making themselves apart from the whole.  I read several of the scriptures it referred to and that was the same impression I got.

I guess everyone will have to read that whole page and determine for themselves what "apo" or "from" means.

I don't believe it's worth arguing over because that verse doesn't determine our salvation.  Today, at 11:00, after reading that whole link - I still lean towards a defection.

But as I said, it's not a hill I'm willing to die on.

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2 hours ago, Last Daze said:

If that were true, the passage would essentially be saying that the rapture (our gathering to Him) won't happen unless the rapture happens first?

hahahahahaha   .......   big smile !    

 

:( there is so much thinking about 'the (hoped for) rapture' ,  as if thinking about it does anyone any good , 

while they go on 'comfortable' sinning not finding out YHVH'S PLAN and PURPOSE TODAY,  not spending time in YHVH'S WORD and not Living the Life of Jesus, not having been crucified in Him, not living by faith today. (fallen away?!)

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